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russian armor

Timing of tanks

5 Oct 2014, 13:01 PM
#21
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

I mostly pgreelay 1vs1 and I don't think that a Puma comes too early because it is the only thing that helps vs ami AA HT, Greyhound and M3 with flamers (when it is good managed it can easily outmaneuver raketenwerfer). With a RAK, you can maybe scare them away but with a Puma you can actually kill them.

1vs1 is usually about CALLins. In your fuel calculation, you should not forget that Allies have solid CALLins, while OKW has nothing (Elite Armor doesn't come out of the box and you need to spend 210 fuel on them). The Puma is the only thing that keeps you alive in 1vs1 until you save fuel for heavier armor.

As Soviet, who techs to t3 when he/she can go T34 CALLin. As US Force, you usually go to Easy 8 which is an absolute allrounder.


Absolute agree about the Callins. They are just about a little bit too attractive because you spare so much tech cost. One more reason for adjusting tech and CP costs.

Don't agree about Puma. The Luchs should be the first OKW tank and it should counter the US AA HT (lower its pentration), Greyhound and so on. A M3 can really be countered without a Puma, this is overkill. The Luchs should be compareable to T70 and Stuart and all oft hem should arrive before the Puma does. Exchange Luchs and Puma in tech structure, adjust fuel costs so that Luchs, Stuart and T70 arrive at the same time, lower penetration of AA HTs and there you have a time window for small tanks that counter light vehicles of course.
5 Oct 2014, 13:59 PM
#22
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971


edit: what im trying to say is you have to use the shock value of the mediums to maximum effect. in a drawn out engagement they are at a serious disadvantage because players will be have already seen them and have at positions set up. however the first strike is the most important and often the most devastating, because there will not be as much AT to counter it.


A T34/76 doesn't have any shock value at all. Schreks, T0 racketenwerfers, paks and 100% success Fausts can deal with it easily.

PzIV is another thing as allies (specially soviets) doesn't have proper AT infantry to face it.
5 Oct 2014, 14:23 PM
#23
avatar of RunToTheSun

Posts: 158

OKW has low tech costs and can get their first vehicles early. But you have to keep in mind OKW cant spam them , if you know what he has got you can work around it and counter it, OKW players have to sacrifice spamability and opt to get their vehicles depending on the situation. If OKW goes for vehicles to counter thigns that are already on the field that is a better choice than to just get something because you can
5 Oct 2014, 15:20 PM
#24
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Using CPs to delay units from hitting the field is an artificial method that doesn't actually create opportunities for other units to be effective. It just draws out stalling tactics even further.

If people are saving up their fuel for heavies, then they're just going to save fuel for heavies longer. More manpower to be fed to the grinders. The real problem is that fuel really only has one viable use: heavy tank call ins. (Well, depending on doctrine, converting into munitions also.)

The only vehicle with any real shock value (ability to be fielded [if rushed] before a strong feasible counter) is the kubelwagen. And that one is a problem because NO counter, not just a hard one is ever available. Although I guess in a 1v1, depending on how a Soviet player chose to cripple themselves, Ostheer t3 has a chance for fairly decent shock value.

Either way, the timing is inconsistently unpredictable.
5 Oct 2014, 15:34 PM
#25
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

OKW has low tech costs and can get their first vehicles early. But you have to keep in mind OKW cant spam them , if you know what he has got you can work around it and counter it, OKW players have to sacrifice spamability and opt to get their vehicles depending on the situation. If OKW goes for vehicles to counter thigns that are already on the field that is a better choice than to just get something because you can


Yes, you are right about them regarding vehicles. They can't spam vehicles, but to make up for this they have strong vehicles (think of AA HT, walking stukka or JagdpanzerIV) and the very best infantry around in this game. OKW is an infantry faction, although many noobs want to play them because of the big tanks. Ostheer is the real tank faction. OKW flexibilty shouldn't break game mechanics. When small tanks hit the field there are counters, thinking of shreks, mines, Raketen, PaKS and so on but there shouldn't be an instant hard counter which makes them obsolete.

Think the other way round and take a different perspective: The time OKW can builds a Luchs, medium tanks are already very close. Shouldn't there be a time window to justify the existence of a unit?
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