vCoH US - what do I do wrong ?

In automatch I lose almost every game i play now. I only play US for now since I don't want anything to do with the brits Atleast there's no friggin brits in CoH 2....hmmmm maybe it's time to switch....


I watched all my replays again and selected four where I think I do well but still lose.

I see that I do some brave/stupid things like charging an Ostwind Flakpanzer with Rifles....which makes me bleed a bit too much....(like an open wound FFS!)


My main problem is that I don't know what to do sometimes. M8, Snipers, Sherman..?
Should I get all the buildings ? Like, is ATguns really so much better than Rangers and Airborne ?

Then there's doctrines....I tend to go Infantry so I get get mines for Rifles, Rangers and the Howitzer.
Offmap combatgroup is also good I've noticed.
It seems to be Inf and Air unless you have a commanding lead, then go Armor for Calliopies.

I went Airborne in the game against PE as I followed Inverse's guide but it still didn't work. Since the guy didn't know about VPs (strange) I should have gone Inf and gotten howitzers instead.

Replays:

http://www.coh2.org/file/6113/what-went-wrong.rec
http://www.coh2.org/file/6112/losing-big-time-here.rec
http://www.coh2.org/file/6111/how-can-i-lose-again.rec
http://www.coh2.org/file/6110/how-could-i-lose.rec

I am not a native speaker so its really hard for me to give you advices. But i will try it.

In your game vs kalagz you had a uncommon macro: 3 Pios, Jeep, 3 Rifles, WSC (without building a unit from it), heal. I would recommend to use a default strategy for the begin and learn the game bascis frist. Especially if you don´t know what to build in certain situations.

Here are two, more or less, default build orders:

#1
2nd Pio
T1
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle
BAR
heal
T4
Sherman
What ever you need next

Doktrin: Inf

#2
2nd Pio
T1
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle
Rifle
SY
T3
M8
heal / BAR
What ever you need next

Doktrin: Inf


Next point is your micro management. You cap under fire, lay mines under fire (both is bad since you get extra demage), you tend to lose units and to often your units are idle. Thats obvious in the replay. You use 1 - 3 units and the rest is standing around doing nothing. Also very important: You dont flank. In this game you had a big blob which attacked a building with a mg in it. End of the story: All units get pinned. The key to a successful US gameplay is to make best use of your rifels. Use all or ur units when u attack. Not just one or two Try to flank.

About the doctrin, inf is the most common in 1v1 as US. Always go for the right side for off map arty. Use it so take out atgs or mgs in combination with a rifle or m8 attack.

To sum it up: Think your about using a default macro and focus on improve your micro management.

Atleast there's no friggin brits in CoH 2....hmmmm maybe it's time to switch....

USF is currently the weakest 1v1 faction in CoH 2. But I hope it will get fixed in the next patch, when ever that will be.

In your game vs kalagz you had a uncommon macro: 3 Pios, Jeep, 3 Rifles, WSC (without building a unit from it), heal. I would recommend to use a default strategy for the begin and learn the game bascis frist. Especially if you don´t know what to build in certain situations.

I tried to maximize my mapcontrol with extra engineers. Some pros always builds a jeep and I like being able to see alot of the map and the jeep helps with that.
I was gonna use the WSC but it never came to be

Next point is your micro management. You cap under fire, lay mines under fire (both is bad since you get extra demage), you tend to lose units and to often your units are idle. Thats obvious in the replay. You use 1 - 3 units and the rest is standing around doing nothing. Also very important: You dont flank. In this game you had a big blob which attacked a building with a mg in it. End of the story: All units get pinned. The key to a successful US gameplay is to make best use of your rifels. Use all or ur units when u attack. Not just one or two Try to flank.

About the doctrin, inf is the most common in 1v1 as US. Always go for the right side for off map arty. Use it so take out atgs or mgs in combination with a rifle or m8 attack.

To sum it up: Think your about using a default macro and focus on improve your micro management.

I believe I was attacked while capping/mine laying but I try react as quick as I can.
Yeah I lose units. Guess practice is the only thing to fix that.

Actually I WAS trying to flank there! I thought the lone Riflesquad would take the MGs attention and leave the rest but that didn't work out since I had to little space between them.



Other things I need to know is, are Rangers and Airborne equally good vs vehicles and tanks ?
I hesitate going airborne since they don't have artillery and the other two have great early and lategame things, leaving Airborne in a niche (against Panzer Elite perhaps ?)


Thanks for aid Fanatic.
How many replays did you watch ?

I tried to maximize my mapcontrol with extra engineers. Some pros always builds a jeep and I like being able to see alot of the map and the jeep helps with that.
I was gonna use the WSC but it never came to be

3 eng will help you to get mapcontrol, well you have to micro them and abuse them as much as you can.
A jeep will help you to deploy on the map thanks to the vision and to abuse light flanks.

Getting the 3 eng and jeep isn't good at all as you'll delay your supposed 'early game" infrantry dominance : the 3 rifles. You'll lose your extra territories as you won't have the rifles to defend them and your jeep won't be really usefull as it's supposed to support the rifles flanks, which you have delayed..

Going the 3 engs, necessary means that you want to use your capping advantage. So getting a wsc without even using it, is bad. Wsc isn't even a real teching choice as sniper can be killed by anything.
Getting the 3 eng means that you want to get early viable tech, as early BAR or early M8 ; tech that your ennemy will have to counter by investing into some buildings and units : early M8 => T2 gren pak, early bars => vet inf, vet sup, t3... That's it.

I believe I was attacked while capping/mine laying but I try react as quick as I can.
Yeah I lose units. Guess practice is the only thing to fix that.

Exactly. It happens to the best players but keeping your units alive is very important. Especially as US where your earn your veterency while fighting. Don´t get me wrong, you got a god unit preservation already. Thats not your biggest problem from my observation.

Actually I WAS trying to flank there! I thought the lone Riflesquad would take the MGs attention and leave the rest but that didn't work out since I had to little space between them.

Yes you try, yes it didn´t work and it´s good you understand why. There are many ways to performe a good flanking attack. The most are about spreading the own units and avoid blobing.

Other things I need to know is, are Rangers and Airborne equally good vs vehicles and tanks ?

Hard to say. Depends. I´d say the Airborne Ranger are better because their weapons got a better penetration (but you habe to pay 125 for the recoils, the Ranger Bazokkas are free). You see both rarely because of there high mp cost in matters of reinforcment and upkeep.

I hesitate going airborne since they don't have artillery and the other two have great early and lategame things, leaving Airborne in a niche (against Panzer Elite perhaps ?)

Thats the point, Air laggs arty. Many people go air vs PE but mostly because of the strafe vs gren blobs.

Thanks for aid Fanatic.
How many replays did you watch ?

Two. The one a was referring to and a longer game. Don´t good much time and writing in english is long and painful process for me. Normaly i prefer a audio commentary but i don´t know if this would work here.

Going the 3 engs, necessary means that you want to use your capping advantage. So getting a wsc without even using it, is bad. Wsc isn't even a real teching choice as sniper can be killed by anything.
Getting the 3 eng means that you want to get early viable tech, as early BAR or early M8 ; tech that your ennemy will have to counter by investing into some buildings and units : early M8 => T2 gren pak, early bars => vet inf, vet sup, t3... That's it.

Yeah vs Wehr it's pretty much a science but it's special Wehr and normal PE I got problems with.
MP44 Volks to stop my charging BAR Rifles and 2x sniper. M8 and Howitzer failed vs that but that must have been bad luck.

Panzer Elite. Everything is a problem. The blob forces me to do Inverse's YouTube videoguide of capping around the blob and get the main fuels and deny it for PE. Hard to do as the blob loves to stand in my retreatpath and murder as many rifles as they can
M8 fixes things slightly until ATHT or 2x Panzerschrecks come around.

Then the BIG problem, Panther battlegroup! Those behemoths destroy everything I can throw at them that's armored so I wonder if it's any use to go Tank Depot without Allied Warmachine when it's very likely those will show up.

If I put 3 ATguns to guard against them then the goddamn blob comes running and I have to engage it with everything I have. My Rifles, Rangers/Airborne, flameengies and whatever else normally win but at casualties. He may also have a Wirbelwind which makes it dangerous to cap outside ATgun range which makes me lose the map.

Got a replay of the problem which I just played. Made me rage

Hard to say. Depends. I´d say the Airborne Ranger are better because there weapons good a better penetration. You see both rarely because of there high mp cost in matters of reinforcment and upkeep.



Thats the point, Air laggs arty. Many people go air vs PE but mostly because of the strafe vs gren blobs.



Two. The one a was referring to and a longer game. Don´t good much time and writing in english is long and painful process for me. Normaly i prefer a audio commentary but i don´t know if this would work here.

High reinforcement costs I noticed but upkeep I don't "see".

I'd like to strafe their goddamn blobs so hard they'll SCREAM but 150muni will be hard to come by even with a medium OP due to minelaying, stickies and some other things. But I guess I have to make it a priority to have 150muni available every now and then.

Your help is appreciated
I was thinking of doing some casts but that hasn't happened yet.

Got a replay of the problem which I just played. Made me rage

I recommend you upload this replay.

High reinforcement costs I noticed but upkeep I don't "see".

Basicaly every has a upkeep (there is an amount of exemption as well). The upkepp will be subtract from your man power income (which you can see, so its in the game but very well hidden). This means the bigger your army is the lower your man power income will be.

Rifle
Unit Cost: 270
Cost to Reinforce:27
Upkeep per Minute and Man: -2,4

Ranger
Unit Cost:400
Cost to Reinforce: 45
Upkeep per Minute and Man: -2,88

Airborne
Unit Cost: 375
Cost to Reinforce: 44
Upkeep per Minute and Man: -2,4

I'd like to strafe their goddamn blobs so hard they'll SCREAM but 150muni will be hard to come by even with a medium OP due to minelaying, stickies and some other things. But I guess I have to make it a priority to have 150muni available every now and then.

Right. If you want to strafe or use off map arty you wont have ammo for anything else.

Your help is appreciated

Thanks.

http://www.coh2.org/file/6144/what-the-fuck.rec

Game goes well until 16th minute. Get my Tank Depot up and things look good. Gets destroyed a few minutes later though when his Panthers charge me....seems ATguns is the way to go. They do alot of damage!

Get 3 ATguns that I have together cause if I spread my army out then his blob will probably charge and destroy one army at a time. Now however he still decrews two at a time instead


I was lucky he never killed my medics. That would have forced me to concede 20min earlier.
I should have built a sniper or mortar but I was scared of his 'mines from the sky' and getting runned over by Panhers, Wirbelwinds, sniped by the 88, charged by the blob....so I went for more ATguns.


The M2 Howitzer was great! Should have built another one, more ATguns, a jeep near the hedgerow, snipers and have the engineers wall off things.

Tank depot....bad idea vs PE huh?

http://www.coh2.org/file/6144/what-the-fuck.rec

Game goes well until 16th minute. Get my Tank Depot up and things look good. Gets destroyed a few minutes later though when his Panthers charge me....seems ATguns is the way to go. They do alot of damage!

Get 3 ATguns that I have together cause if I spread my army out then his blob will probably charge and destroy one army at a time. Now however he still decrews two at a time instead

You don't have to blob, but you do have to stay close enough to support your units.

So one AT is good until he get the Panthers. If you sense they are coming (he had a lot of fuel or you don't see lots of vehicles being built) then get another and an additional piece of AT (M10, Rangers, Airborne RR). Have an MG, an M8, a flamer and rifle or within range of the AT's and MG and he can't blob to kill your crewed weapons. And stickies. A slowed Panther, if you still have AT gun, is a dead panther.

PE Panthers should not scare you. Remember a couple of things about them.
- without vet they are very penetrable from behind by almost any AT (including Ranger Bazooka). Try to kill them before they get vet.
- Their main guns can barely hit infantry.
- They can't cap.
This is very important. If you hold a lot of map he is using 24 of his popcap for those panthers so he might be unit constrained.

I was lucky he never killed my medics. That would have forced me to concede 20min earlier.
I should have built a sniper or mortar but I was scared of his 'mines from the sky' and getting runned over by Panhers, Wirbelwinds, sniped by the 88, charged by the blob....so I went for more ATguns.

I don't think mortars are not very good vs. PE. PE is nimble and mortars are slow to hit. The AB mortar from the supply drop is different. Man it with rifles and it costs you only 81 mp to reinforce that squad. ANY 81 mp unit is pretty worthwhile even if you just use it to cap.

Wirblewinds are not as scarey as Ostwinds. They are not so accurate from a distance and can do little to no damage to vehicles. If you can, get a sticky on them, but don't lose men to do it. 1 AT will keep them off of you.

AT guns are great in the sense that they can be cheaply re-crewed. A nice choice instead of the m8 is the Halftrack quad. they cost less manpower and fuel than an m8, lots of anti-inf against the blob (though they need help suppressing), and when it is around you can reman ATs or man Supply drop weapons and then reinforce the squads right there. Quads are also effective anti-PE vehicle. They can't dent a Puma, but they can do a lot of damage to ACs and PE halftracks.

The M2 Howitzer was great! Should have built another one, more ATguns, a jeep near the hedgerow, snipers and have the engineers wall off things.

Tank depot....bad idea vs PE huh?

I am not a fan of the howitzer against PE at all. Or the off-map, as PE can get out of the way pretty quickly, and those munitions are better spent on defensive mines (to keep ACs from chasing you into your base or keep you from getting flanked), stickies, ranger thompsons, AP rounds on your AT (they increase both penetration AND damage).

TD is a good idea against PE but not if you see "tank destroyer" tactic. m10s can chase down all their light vehicles and any wounded or stickied panthers, though use them cautiously. Shermans too have enough anti-vehicle and anti-infantry to handle all but the panthers and Hetzers, and they can help with those, particularly with upgun.

Us is the most hard faction in multiplayer, so don't be sad, hope they fix it.

Thanks AVNY.

Aren't M18 Hellcats better than M10s ? I dont' remember if they cost the same but Hellcats are faster and better armored + can cloak =)


I will try to have two positions if I have 3 ATguns so all of'em aren't in the same position. Will get more territory that way.

MG, need to get that. Will do.


The thing he did in my latest replay, is the FHQ the southwestern house on Langres by the munipoint and I was ofcourse unable to move him from it....Charging with 5 Rifles, 2 flameengies, 2 ATguns (though not everything moved up at once which I noticed in the replay....) + an M8 was not enough....but I know strafe or MG would have solved it nicely.

He also had so many schrecks that vehicles were not good except M4 Shermans or Crocodiles.

Was also thinking of building a MG nest at the important fuelpoint so I don't have to run up there all the time to get it back.

Aren't M18 Hellcats better than M10s ? I dont' remember if they cost the same but Hellcats are faster and better armored + can cloak =)

Depends what you want. The M10 is faster then the M18, its mobility and maneuverability are better and the penetration is higher. On the other hand the M10 has the bug shoot issue and it´s main gun doesn't hit infantry as frequent as the M18´s main gun. Oh yes M18´s can cloak but you will rarely use this feature. It´s not that good

Was also thinking of building a MG nest at the important fuelpoint so I don't have to run up there all the time to get it back.

This is mostly a waste of fuel, your most important tech ressource. Mostyl but not always. It depends.

Us is the most hard faction in multiplayer, so don't be sad, hope they fix it.

This thread is about CoH1, not CoH2.

- without vet they are very penetrable from behind by almost any AT (including Ranger Bazooka). Try to kill them before they get vet.

Vet 1 & 2 don´t affect the penetration. At Vet 3 the Panther will receive +100 increase in deflection from all sources. It´s general speaking unlikely you won´t you wont penetrate here.

- Their main guns can barely hit infantry.

Thats wrong. There are better anti infantery tanks, sure. But one of the hughe advantges of a PE Panther is that he in fact is a good anti infantery tank as well. Especially if you compare him with his WH counterpart. The others are their tech tree, good mobility and maneuverability, good armour, they vet fast, good penetration, flexible vet. The PE Panther is a extremly dangerous enemy.

Don't use the M10 over the M18, it's comparatively shitty unless spammed with AWM against panthers in 2v2 or your opponent is bad enough to allow his infantry to get squished. A small added bonus of the hellcat is it gets the MG gunner for free when called from and omcg.

Don't use the M10 over the M18, it's comparatively shitty unless spammed with AWM against panthers in 2v2 or your opponent is bad enough to allow his infantry to get squished. A small added bonus of the hellcat is it gets the MG gunner for free when called from and omcg.

mg which has a positive bugged accuracy vs snipers.

mg which has a positive bugged accuracy vs snipers.

Yeah I think they forgot a comma space, iirc it's 10x as good as it should be against snipers. I'm also under the impression the main gun is more accurate against infantry but that could be due to it not misfiring all the time.

I must be using m18s wrong. I find I have greater difficulty using them to crush than with the m10 and I wonder if it is how I use vehicles that is the problem or just the smaller size (better pathing) and better speed + acceleration of the m10 makes them better infantry crushers.

And I do like the higher penetration, which you can get out of a cloaked m18, but having to manually click the cloak/non-cloak is annoying to my limited practice and microing abilities.

(ah, let's face it... I suck in reality, but good at game knowledge.)

Campaigner - you are getting tips from some of the very very best.

A tip I learned from Pepsi a while ago about using Bazookas and RR airborne... If you see a vehicle try to pop the squad into a building to shoot, then pop them out opposite side of the vehicle, then back in. The AT infantry won't dance around when in the building so you can get two quick rockets off with good visibility and accuracy. Popping out protects them until you can shoot again.

(Did I get that right Pepsi?)

It's very situational but yea, pop in shoot pop out from the opposite door.. That's the idea

And yea, they don't dance around in house and the accuracy and penetration feel both way better too..

I find I have greater difficulty using them to crush than with the m10 and I wonder if it is how I use vehicles that is the problem or just the smaller size (better pathing) and better speed + acceleration of the m10 makes them better infantry crushers.

The M10 is faster then the M18, its mobility and maneuverability are better and the penetration is higher. On the other hand the M10 has the bug shoot issue and it´s main gun doesn't hit infantry as frequent as the M18´s main gun. Oh yes M18´s can cloak but you will rarely use this feature. It´s not that good