It's time to nerf OKW late game

Enough is enough.

3v3 and 4v4 are not going to be perfectly balanced, but they don't have to be. I think Ostheer is fine, but there is an incredibly obvious problem with OKW in team games and it needs to be fixed.

Non-doctrinal KT is a horrendous balance decision. Jagdtiger shooting through multiple walls/buildings/200 feet of dirt is flat-out stupid.

I believe the forward medical truck to be part of the problem, but I'd like to see the ridiculous superhero tanks fixed before I make any suggestion to the med truck in team games.

This is self-evident, I should not have to explain it. 90% axis at all hours of the day, ~87% winrate for OKW in those game modes.....

Until they address this, I suggest everyone simply queue as axis. Slower queue times, but less aggrivation, more fun, and you basically auto-win after the 25 minute mark.

Relic,

WHEN are u LEARNING? Wehrmacht is OP since 2013 June!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I really think Ost is fine from a Soviet perspective. OKW just seems out of line

First of all, why do you have four T34's trying to take on a KT? Lol, by late game you should have multiple Is2's, 152's etc etc. All you people complaining about how underpowered allies are, sound like babies. How about coordinating a p47 strike on a KT then rolling in armor to sweep up the HALF DEAD KT?
Axis armor naturally crushes other factions armor late game. Look at history. You really think T34's are supposed to hold a candle to a freaking pirate shit on wheels (KT)? Win early game... As far as the Americans go, I agree that they are underpowered. The Kubel is easily countered by maxim, I don't understand where people are saying that should be nerfed.

I am talking about a situation that might occur in 1v1, without the need to use doctrinal armour.

The idea of 'Multiple super heavies' like IS2 and 152 is what we are trying to avoid because it gets ridiculous and causes imbalances in 4v4.

Don't forget, we want to move AWAY from dependence on Super heavies, which is why I'm suggesting Relic throttles the income for factions in 4v4 so we don't end up with Mastadon Tanks running wild.

I've killed a King Tiger with about four or five T34s and a ZiS before. The 1v1 went into late game and he managed to save up for a KT. I buttoned it with Guards and circled with T34s while a ZiS took pot shots/forced it to move back. If he got a T34 close to death I would try to ram it since it was just about a write off, and if I could immobilise the KT it would be worth it at that point in the game.

I'd prefer a nerf of OKW rather than buff of all other factions. SImplest solution (although may have repercussions). Buffing three factions takes a lot of work, plus it could lead to power creep

Relic doesn't like the easy way out.

I'm cool with all that crap up there but muni income you are seriously overdoing it. The reason you always see shrecks blobs is because OKW dont have anything to spam all their ammo into except mines. If the LMG upgrades need to have a price then they have something to sink their ammo into. If I couldn't get LMG upgrades as ostheer as a way to throw away all my muni I would probably be spamming pgrens with shrecks right now. And stuka is also one of the easiest things to avoid in the game.

ethier reduce income.

OR

change prices to fit new income.

ethier reduce income.

OR

change prices to fit new income.

Alright lets do the math. 2 shrecks cost 120 muni cause they are 60 each but for OKW they are 90 because they come with cold immunity which is somewhat good for late game cause all the firepits get destroyed and you dont want to waste 90 manpower for a firepit. So Relic can't make a single panzershreck worth 120 munis cause that is just wrong in every way.

The issue with the tigers is the armor being too good or the penetration values of their counters being too low. I had one game where the RNG from hell struck. I had a 57mm waiting for a KT, I timed the activation of AP shells perfectly and got off 3 rounds before the tiger destroyed the at gun. All 3 rounds failed to penetrate, haha. The values on these tanks carry people of lower skill.

The closest anyone has to this as allies is with an IS2. The ISU has a good gun, but it's armor isn't really that good compared to what it's up against. As a result, shitty players who get control of these behemoths end up losing them much faster than if they had played Axis.

what I wnat to see:

Nurf kubel

nurf flak hq penetration

make okw pay for their lmg's for falls and obers

nurf stuka

give okw the 66% munitions back. IM TIRED OF SHREK BLOBS

make t34/85 non-doc

make priest non-doc

give usf elite troops equivalent to paras in t4 building

give usf pershing commander

buff zooks

buff Jackson pen

buff BARS

Falls use AR's(FG 42's). Not lmgs.

Falls use AR's(FG 42's). Not lmgs.

Doesnt matter. they should have to pay for em

ethier reduce income.

OR

change prices to fit new income.

do you like, even think about the consequences of your balance suggestions?
i can still shrek blob with reduced income as long as i DONT throw grenades. the 100% income allows me to upgrade to shreks, and to throw grenades. 66% only allows me to upgrade to shreks. either way i WILL get shreks no matter what, as theyre the highest priority and one of the most important things to have in the OKW mid game

something has to change about the OKW faction so that there are more munition sinks. messing with income or prices will just force players to economize on grenades and mines.

Possibly reduce munitions income to 80-90% To give that feel of resource scarity but not entirely taking out your ability to upgrade or use abilities.

Doesnt matter. they should have to pay for em

sure and pls decrease there MP to 340

sure and pls decrease there MP to 340

sure, if u take away their teleport ability

2 insulting posts invised.

Please keep this thread respectful for each other, otherwise consequences may ensue

Doesnt matter. they should have to pay for em

Sure, then give us vCOH falls, camo and extreme first strike bonus at cover at vet 0, even Kar98 that can wipe out unintended rifles in seconds, then we are talking.

what I wnat to see:

Nurf kubel

nurf flak hq penetration

make okw pay for their lmg's for falls and obers

nurf stuka

give okw the 66% munitions back. IM TIRED OF SHREK BLOBS

make t34/85 non-doc

make priest non-doc

give usf elite troops equivalent to paras in t4 building

give usf pershing commander

buff zooks

buff Jackson pen

buff BARS

Nurf kubel -

nurf flak hq penetration

make okw pay for their lmg's for falls

nurf stuka - just a little

give usf elite troops equivalent to ´´paras´´ in t4 building - not needed ( but is a nice idea )

give usf pershing commander

i think those ones are good ...

and a T34 Calliope is better than a priest no ?

I will take issue with my friend the wombat about nerfing fuel income in 4v4

That's not going to get the 1v1 and 2v2 crowd playing 4v4; instead it is most likely to upset existing 4v4 players.

One of the reasons people play 4v4 because they like seeing heavy units on the field in usable numbers


The problem with that is not that people are spamming heavy tanks, or that they are able to have more than one:

The problem is that OKW have really good late game units, this means that they can make efficient use of the pop cap and are not bleeding fuel or manpower to replace them.


OKH v Sov is and was fine.


Both have viable late game options if it turns into a slugfest and the game goes that long:

IS2, ISU-152, T34-85 v Tiger, Elephant, Panther


OKW have very strong, very durable mega units - and in team games they will go long enough to get them out, especially with caches and lots of salvage. The K-T, strongest tank in the game, isn't even doctrinal*

Worse to fight them you are reliant on:

Off map call in

Artillery (very map dependent, done it on Ettlebruck, not anywhere else)

Swarming them with inferior units



The problem with swarming them, is that is no such thing as a drawn battle for the allies. You HAVE to win.

You fight a KT with 5 T34s and you take it to 40% damage and lose 3 of yours.

You just lost MP, Fuel and Vet you won't get back and all you have achieved is to give Vet to him and driven him off the map for a bit


So you should try to stay in the fight and kill him, even if you win this might mean you lose 4 out of 5 tanks and you are not much better off than before because you have nothing left to exploit.

Or you lose all your tanks, and he is only damaged which means you are screwed.


++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't really want OKW to be nerfed late game, I would like the others to be more competitive against them


That might not be possible though.


That said, I really think the K-T should be a capstone 16CP call in for Elite Armoured and not available to everyone in every game.

Make the elite IV-J the standard non-doc tank.

The only think i see as being too strong in the OKW late game is How ridiculously overpowering their infantry can be, both volks and obers

Volks with 5 combat bonuses clearly overperform compared to other Units with only 2 combat bonuses and useless vet 1 abilities. Tone down the Infantry than re-evaluate the faction afterwards.