Against the Kubel heavy opening (2v2)

Help

This thing is stomping me and I don't know how to counter 3+ Kubel openings (between both players) besides always asking my soviet ally to go tier 1, or using rifle company. Those work fine but I don't want to always pick those.

I used to just flank it but it just gets away and then another Kubel suppresses them again and sooner or later the first one comes back and gets other flanking troops.

Would a fast ZiS work once you notice this strat?

When the OKW does this I find the normally rush a puma as well so M20 hasn't worked for me.

Help

This thing is stomping me and I don't know how to counter 3+ Kubel openings (between both players) besides always asking my soviet ally to go tier 1, or using rifle company. Those work fine but I don't want to always pick those.

I used to just flank it but it just gets away and then another Kubel suppresses them again and sooner or later the first one comes back and gets other flanking troops.

Would a fast ZiS work once you notice this strat?

When the OKW does this I find the normally rush a puma as well so M20 hasn't worked for me.

3 kubels you say interesting thats 240*3 MP so im guessing they only have strummis out to cap points , did you try spreading out your 3 rifle mans rear echs so you can cap multiple places or decap his cutoff he cant engae at all places is there a replay u can upload ?

try Mehcanized commander you cant get a Military truck out at 1CP.

3 kubels you say interesting thats 240*3 MP so im guessing they only have strummis out to cap points , did you try spreading out your 3 rifle mans rear echs so you can cap multiple places or decap his cutoff he cant engae at all places is there a replay u can upload ?

try Mehcanized commander you cant get a Military truck out at 1CP.

Didn't upload a replay because I was looking more for general advice on countering it, as opposed to that particular game, but if I get a spare moment I'll upload it!

If you wanna see a more successful Kubel spam strategy, look at Aerohank versus Breaking Brad in the replay forum.

The lack of capping power isn't a problem for this build because the Kubels also prevent the US player from capping. If you spread out and run away from the Kubels they just split the Kubels and use them to solo the riflemen - failure to retreat or run into a build in this case generally means death. They're also fast enough that if you try to flank again they can regroup the Kubels and a full circle practically.

Here are some examples of it:

http://www.coh2.org/replay/24195/hashtag-esports (against US)

http://www.coh2.org/replay/24184/esports (against soviets)

AT Grenades work fine as a counter but I'd rather not always play as Rifle Company. I don't have Mech Company.

I've found the only saving grace against multiple Kubelwagons is the M20 Utility Car.

Tech aggressively. Your first 50 fuel should go for a Lieutenant immediately. I personally suggest getting a fuel cache very early. If I go Rifle Company then I will often pick up a build order like this:

• Rifleman
  
• Second Rear Echeleon Squad
  
• Veteran Riflemen Squad
  
• Build Fuel Cache with 2nd RE.
  
• LT
  
• M20
  

Modifying the build is pretty easy for different Companies; just get Two Rifles then RE if you're not Rifle Company. This particular order works well because of the Vet Call-in timing.

Play carefully. Use buildings and cover to give up as little ground as possible. Don't try to engage a Kubelwagon unless you have 3 squads ready to attack from multiple angles. Don't tax your forces excessively before the M20 arrives. It is your golden ticket moving forward.

You need 70 fuel before he gets 70 fuel. It should be pretty easy to outpace him though even if you struggle for map control as he gets less fuel and won't get his Mechanized HQ up very quickly. It comes down to a matter of stalling with your starting forces.

When the M20 comes out at about ~5 minutes then you have a window that must be exploited immediately. Grab Armored Skirts on it but don't wait for the upgrade. Rush the Kubels immediately. There's no need for subtlety. Build up speed and get behind them. Their rear armor is weak and the M20 will tear them apart in seconds. A single Panzerschreck will not stop the M20: it takes two shots to kill the M20 and if your Armored Skirts upgrade completes then it will take three.

The biggest danger is a mine. Thankfully the Sturmpioneers have a lot of work to do between capturing points, repairing kubels and fighting. There's not much time to drop mines unless you really stumbled into Kubel suppression. Keep tabs on the Sturmpioneers and their position. Could a mine have been laid? Avoid that area with the M20. If you can kill the Sturms or cause them to retreat early game then you did well.

When I play a double Kubel build I always follow my Kubelwagons up with a Puma. Your M20 should score you at least one Kubelwagon kill. Hopefully two. It will break the "spell" that the Kubelwagons have on the map. Follow your M20 up with immediate Bazooka research. After you kill some Kubelwagons he'll retreat and wait for the Puma. Switch out your crew in the M20: the Bazooka Boys inside are valuable against the Puma. Give your second Rear Echelon Squad two Bazookas back at home. With three Bazookas you can scare the Puma away easily. Grab some .50 Caliber HMG squads to protect your critical squads. .50 Caliber HMG is also a good counter to the Kubelwagon. It has enough firepower to kill a Kubel from the front.

Where you go from there is up to your tastes. I suggest a fast Major. Your early fuel cache and mid-game map control from the M20 will give you a healthy boost of fuel. Grab some of your favorite tanks and seal out the game!

Sadly this makes going Captain difficult. I think the Captain struggles against multiple Kubel builds.

That being said if you're going to try Captain openers against Kubels...

• Mechanized Company would be good. Delay your Captain slightly with a WC51 loaded for bear.
  
• When you get your Captain grab a 57mm AT gun first. 57mm has the fastest fire rate of all AT guns and will kill Kubels quickly unless the enemy's micro is exceptional. The element of surprise is key. Try to fire from further than the Kubel can see (60 AT gun range vs 50 sight range).
  
• The Stuart is a big risk. A HUGE risk. The Puma will almost always come out before the Stuart. Just think twice before you get a Stuart.
  
• After you have your AT gun maybe grab some BARs or M1919s to round out your force.
  

Thanks Corp.Shephard! That is an awesome guide! I'm going to try that soon.

kubel range is the same as fighting position rifle nade range too, so if you can get one up in an important area early, it will at least force the kubels away or to keep moving, so it can't suppress as easily. Also being in the position breaks suppression, so you can throw suppressed squads inside if they are close enough. It helps a lot, but of course positioning it is key.

It's funny how USF are actually better off than Soviets now. The M20 is at least a real counter.

By the time Soviets get the Scoutcar up, OKW will have a second Kubel ready. And they will destroy it, without taking serious damage.

M20 isn't an ideal counter since the Puma comes soon after in my opinion. I prefer going for captain + ATgun, use the captain to faster the ATgun development and stick them together on the field.
You can surprise the Kubel and Puma.

this:

When the M20 comes out at about ~5 minutes then you have a window that must be exploited immediately. Grab Armored Skirts on it but don't wait for the upgrade. Rush the Kubels immediately. There's no need for subtlety. Build up speed and get behind them. Their rear armor is weak and the M20 will tear them apart in seconds. A single Panzerschreck will not stop the M20: it takes two shots to kill the M20 and if your Armored Skirts upgrade completes then it will take three.

After that you must then go for bazocas or AT guns from airboine general and GG.

this way of playing reminds me of USF vs Panzer elite in Coh1 when you had to stall your enemy until fast m20 comes in.


sry for bad english.

Puma is scary for the M20 but between Rifle AT grenades and Bazookas you can usually fend it off.

If your M20 can pick off the enemy Kubelwagon(s) then it has opened the way for the rest of your forces. Just keep it safe from there. The Puma can only really pivot to one place. Keep Bazooka troopers near it at all times and you'll do fine usually. I keep my M20 alive even against Pumas long into the game.

If you can keep your M20 alive and get up some M8A1 Howitzer Motor Carriages the two synergize really well. M20 has exceptional vision radius (50 base and even higher with vet) so it's the ideal spotter for artillery units. The AT mines can protect the M8A1 from a tank assault.

Munitions can get pretty tight though so spend them wisely on AT as much as you can.

Maybe get soviet team mate to go t2 straight up and build a AT gun first then a maxim . Use his suport weapon and rifles in a combined arms fashion to cover each others weaknesses. Use your rifles to spot from the at gun and keep moving forwards every time you get a chance.