Are kubelwagens OP

Kubel were useless in the last few patches. It is performing its intended role (finally). Although durability wise it still dies to wind and its not scalable. Its an early game unit that prevents being overwhelmed by con and rifle spam.

No change needed and well done to relic for change. Now for LEIG to be made usefull vs Maxim spam and Soviet sniper

I think for this unit to be balanced and match its role and cost relic should make the following changes:

Cost change from 240 mp to 210mp and 10fu

REASON: to make it more consistent with other units and penalize spam much like was done with m3 few patches ago (from 10fu to 15fu).


Acceleration change from 4.5 to 2.5

REASON: currently the kubel is too fast, it can change direction and get out of a good flank because of this.


Sight change from 50 to 35 and preferably to 30 if all mgs get this change.

REASON: this unit can go solo with that sight and attack and suppress infantry units well before they can even see it. Also it can see flanking units before they can get in range or see it.

Target Size change from 10 to 15

REASON: simple so u can hit the damn thing and the numbers are explained in a previous post.


There are other areas that can be addressed like penetration, damage, and suppression. However, I think if the changes above are applied this unit can become balanced. And after all balance is usually done in steps. Plus keeping those 3 things the same enables players to make good use of its suppression and damage to attack snipers for example.

I really don't like these suggestions. I don't think the kubelwagen should have a manpower cost decrease but the fuel costs is needed. I want to keep the acceleration that's cool.

I really don't think you should decrease the sight range at all if the scout car and the dodge are still able to keep it's 50 sight range, that would be too unfair considering that the scout car and the dodge are also super early vehicles.

Also keep in mind that the scoutcar and dodge can put a squad in their car which increases it's dps as well as giving them a quick capping ability.

USF is not not playable now. what you need to do is get two kubelwagens and get them to USA base, then game is over.

Abdul there are a number of posters on this forum who seem to like arguing over discussing the actual game. I've found your posts to be backed by logical thought, if these individuals try to engage you by insulting you etc. you are best to ignore them! They'll end up dragging you down to their level i.e. insulting back and forth.

Thanks, its just that the opportunity is too good to miss sometimes

And they will defeat you with experience!!
AND close the thread

With the new rules this has become less of a problem, because the mods will remove troll comments most of the time if they see them. You just have to help point them out because they can't be in every topic/thread all the time. Note for example how comments 3 and 5 were removed.

The only thing this thread needs now is a comparative between old kubel and new kubel and we are done.

Population cost from 4 to 6
Mid accuracy from 0.55 to 0.5
Far accuracy from 0.35 to 0.16
Rate of fire from 8 to 12
Moving accuracy from 0.5 to 0.75
Moving burst multiplier from 0.1 to 0.5
Moving cooldown multiplier from 0.125 to 0.25
Range from 35 to 40
Mid range distance from 20 to 25
Far range distance from 35 to 40
Nearby suppression multiplier from 0.6 to 0.75
Nearby suppression radius from 10 to 12
Suppression from 0.008 to 0.0053
Firing arc from 45 degrees to 30 degrees


Those are the changes to the kubel. You can clearly see that they super pushed the damage and suppression values. The only thing they reduced was the far accuracy.

I really don't like these suggestions. I don't think the kubelwagen should have a manpower cost decrease but the fuel costs is needed. I want to keep the acceleration that's cool.

I really don't think you should decrease the sight range at all if the scout car and the dodge are still able to keep it's 50 sight range, that would be too unfair considering that the scout car and the dodge are also super early vehicles.

Also keep in mind that the scoutcar and dodge can put a squad in their car which increases it's dps as well as giving them a quick capping ability.

Assuming its total cost is correct right now, you would have to drop some mp to compensate for fuel increase.

The m3 and dodge are scout cars, but the kubel is an mg. Plus it has the map hack ability at vet1. How is it fair that an mg can have a longer range/sight and be able to suppress units before they know its there?

Everything in the game is a L2P issue in some way.
Obviously kubel can be countered by way superior tactics or micro.

But isn't that the definition of overpowered.
"Can only be beaten by way superior skill or tactics".


In 1v1 2 kubel opening is deadly on some maps and almost impossible to beat as USF or soviet T2. It also is mindblowingly easy to pull off, no skill needed.

In team games it is way worse.

And I really do not see how a fuel cost can change anything or a manpower cost.
As it does not change anything, if you are stuck in your base

When lots of people are using cheesy tactics in everyday games.
Like 2/3 of all games vs OKW the Kubel + 1 Sturmpio rushes enemy cutoff or base.

Thats when problems get obvious.

Kubel poses some micro problems, wouldn't you agree? I mean, you have a risk using it. You realy can loose it to early, this can occur. Why not letting this unit as a high risk/high reward, as it is now, and stop arguing about it. This is the entire idea on which OKW faction was built - high risk/high reward - and the new kubel fits into the picture well. More than this, it's almost completely useless on maps with many buildings. Maxims, for comparison, are usefull on all kind of maps.

What is the point of a unit, that either completly ruins the game/fun for one faction.

Either you lose your two kubels at the beginning of the game -> game over.
Or you seal in the other faction -> game over.
For you that is what the game is about?

Where is the fun part?

And of course on some maps, it does not work.
That does not change the fact, that it ruins the game on the maps it does work on.

What is the point of a unit, that either completly ruins the game/fun for one faction.

Either you lose your two kubels at the beginning of the game -> game over.
Or you seal in the other faction -> game over.
For you that is what the game is about?

Where is the fun part?

And of course on some maps, it does not work.
That does not change the fact, that it ruins the game on the maps it does work on.

The same could be said for rifleblobs, Shocktroop spam, maxim spam... Soviet sniper spam...

The same could be said for rifleblobs, Shocktroop spam, maxim spam... Soviet sniper spam...

How often have you been sealed in your base by either of those within the first 2 minutes of the game?

How often have you been sealed in your base by either of those within the first 2 minutes of the game?

If you get sealed in your base by 2x Kubelwagens, you seriously goofed somewhere and should reevaluate what you did wrong.

Also a pro-tip that I learned from fighting maxim spam. MG's can't suppress what's in a building, and you can also use the multiple entrances/exits some buildings have to move stealthily or quickly between streets and avoid MG fire.

Semosky summer base south side, any buildings near the base?

Semosky summer base, any buildings near the base?

Didn't say it would help you every time, Also there are some points you can use to flank around and go where the Kubel can't. It's a small hike but it can be done.


Think outside of the box of maxim spam and you'll figure out how to beat a kubel or two.

Thing is, I don't need any help.
I am a pretty mediocre player with a slight tendency to bad.

But before I was holding my own against equally skilled players.
Right now I lose 95% as USF vs same rank OKW players and win 90% of OKW vs USF games.

That is simply not right
And looking at the leaderboards, its is obviously not just me, but the Top 10 players as well.

So you can try to deny there is a problem, but for me it is obvious.

If you get sealed in your base by 2x Kubelwagens, you seriously goofed somewhere and should reevaluate what you did wrong.

Also a pro-tip that I learned from fighting maxim spam. MG's can't suppress what's in a building, and you can also use the multiple entrances/exits some buildings have to move stealthily or quickly between streets and avoid MG fire.

This idea is short-sighted though.

The Maxim doesn't have sight that equals its range. It's range is far greater than normal troops but it can't leverage that range without a spotter.

The Kubelwagon has the unique advantage of 50 sight and 40 range. It can snipe at a building indefinitely without needing a spotter. A building can only zone a Kubelwagon. Unless you put a .50 cal or Maxim inside the building then you will lose the position inevitably to the attrition of the Kubelwagon. Buildings have gone from an excellent counter to being "countered" by a Kubelwagon. That's rough. The incredible vision you get from the Kubel makes it very hard to move around it. Even buildings can't camouflage your movements that well.

It's a bit of an issue. To control enemy troops the Kubelwagon needs range that is better than a basic trooper (higher than 35) in my opinion. However no other MG can spot for itself.

An MG that is also a scout vehicle is inherently a powerhouse of a unit. The Kubelwagon is more of an MG than ever now. Now we begin to see the problem when the two collide.

I think the new Kubelwagon is far too punishing to certain allied stratgies; in particular Captain USF and Soviet Tier 1.

In my opinion the biggest issues with it are the sight range, suppression while moving, and possibly it's effectiveness against natural counters like the M3A1.

just put smoke on an M3

Sure it's a problem that has to be fixed.
But Axis had to deal with this problem since M3 and then US Jeep.
Just saying...

US jeep is a callin unit and it is cp1 unit,how USF couter two of this shit.

Sure it's a problem that has to be fixed.
But Axis had to deal with this problem since M3 and then US Jeep.
Just saying...

But they cant deal damage and suppress, never could, combination of such speed, damage, suppression, vision and super fast repair are crucial on field. Jeep was nerfed and problem with M3 is flamers inside, not M3, but its problem that also exist and need attention.

I think they should add extra accuracy vs retreating units too. Then axis would have their own version of the flamer M3. Medicine tastes great!