Soviet Commander Evaluation
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
http://www.coh2.org/topic/23463/okw-commander-evaluation
Austerlitz did OKH
http://www.coh2.org/topic/23503/wehrmacht-commander-evaluation
Here is my take on the Soviets.
I am mostly a team player game so mostly writing with that in mind:
Guard Motor Co-ordination Common
For a long time this was one of THE doctrines, especially during the Era of the Unnerfed Tiger Ace. It remains a solid choice for anyone struggling against German Armour and greatly complements a T1/T4 build. It's main weakness is a lack of off map call ins, but with guards and Mark Target there are plenty of other good things to spend munitions on.
Guards
Best seen as light at support troops with some AI capacity and pretty much eaten by OKW infantry.
However they are a threat to their light armour such as Luchs and pumas.
Because they are not so common button is often unexpected and so smoke unavailable as such it can be an unwelcome surprise that will ruin someone's day.
120mm Mortar
Nice base truck you have there, shame if anything were to happen to it
Vehicle Repair
Meh
Mark Target
See that heavy armour? It's dead. Excellent for throwing into a fight you aren't even in which makes it a call in in all but name
2 x T34/85
Handy, powerful and hard hitting. Use these to give offensive punch to an SU-85 build or hold off to 10CP for the win
Guard Motor Combined Arms Common
Not highly favoured, but on the right map against the right opponent, useful
Hit the dirt
I'm going to lay still and get mortared and grenaded to bits
Pass
Guards
PPSH
If you can get close up, which makes this map dependent, this can help scale conscripts into the late game
152mm Howitzer
Fixed artillery is not so sexy, but OKW give juicy targets
23mm strafe
It's ok
NKVD Rifle Disruption
Considered a joke because you get no units, but has some niche abilities
Radio Intercept
Because knowing is half the battle
Recon
Nothing with recon is terrible
Fear Propaganda Artilery
Generally it is better to kill than pin then retreat. But it does stop capping and that's occasionally useful, and it is cheapish. And on a big map with restricted mobility (like Hill 331) it's a long walk back to the fight for OKH who cannot set up forward retreat units
Rapid Conscription
I don't use any of the munitions to manpower if you get killed abilities
23mm Strafe
Shock Motor Heavy
ISU-152 is not the god unit anymore but it is still pretty good and this commander gives you up close infantry and death from afar.
Shock Troops
Get close and go toe to toe with elite OKW infantry, but too many will drain MP like no tomorrow
Armoured Vehicle Detection
Never used this and I don't feel I am missing out
Conscript Repair
If you still have conscripts by the time this comes out, maybe situationally useful
IL-2 Bombstrike
BOOM
ISU-152
Wah! My vetted infantry got wiped!
Axis players hate this unit and will try to kill it with extreme prejudice, don't buy it if you can't protect it
Later
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Currently possibly THE doctrine. The best Soviet Infantry, the best Soviet tank, a potent call in and the fearsome flame tank. This fits T2/T4 like a glove.
Shocks
Anti-Tank Gun Ambush
Under-rated but potent, especially now they have hold fire. Remember to turn it off when you try to move
incendiary Barrage
It's a bit irregular and not reliable, but will mess up infantry and especially support weapons
KV-8
Irresolute (or smart) Axis players will run from this, but it will mess with panzershrek squads. Do not overextend with it unless you are prepared to lose it.
IS-2
The only bona fide heavy tank the Soviets get, and the this is best commander to get it from
Conscript Support Uncommon
This does exactly what it says on the tin. I think this is very much a "I'm going to try and win the game early" commander because not much of this scales
Hit the Dirt
PPSH
Conscript Repair
Rapid Conscription
Incendiary Barrage
Armoured Assault Uncommon
Not popular as you get no early game abilities, no elite infantry and the two different tanks you do get now come too close together
Radio Intercept
Vehicle Repair
2 x T34/85
IS-2
23mm Strafe
Mechanised Support Uncommon
ISU-152 with guards is otherwise more or less identical to the shock equivalent. Guards can help prevent flanking armour though
Guards
ATG Ambush
Mark Vehicle
IL-2 Bombstrike
ISU-152
Terror Tactics Uncommon
Great name, so-so commander. Generally though there are other better options to get the things this has.
Shocks
Fear Propaganda Artillery
152mm Howitzer
KV-8
IL-2 Bombstrike
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
Why just be anti-infantry when you can terrify them.
Hence Terror is better
Shocks
Recon
Fear Propaganda Artilery
Incendiry Barrage
KV-8
Soviet Shock Army Common
Only useful I think if you must have shocks + 120mm, or you have no fuel, or you want to spend all your fuel on tank spam
Shocks
120mm Motar
PPSH
152mm howitzer
23mm Strafe
Soviet Combined Arms Common
Is very close to Guard Combined Arms, but probably better on open maps
Guards
Recon
ATG Ambush
152 howitzer
IL-2 bombstrike
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
This does not mean any of them are necessarily good, but at least they add variety
Soviet Reserve Army
Irregulars
This is the only commander with these, so if you want to tip your hand to your opponent about what commander you have and feel the urge for 4 man squads with an LMG they can barely use and grenades they can then go for it
PPSH
Consript Repair
Rapid Conscription
152mm Howitzer
Counterattack Rare
People love this, gives you shocks, recon and the B4s to fight Axis heavies
Shocks
Recon
For Mother Russia
Does what people think urrah! does in that it boosts combat and movement
B4-Howitzer
I don't really like this, but plenty of people do. It's too random as an artillery piece so usually gets employed as a really big AT Gun
KV-1
If you've played TOW you realise how scary this tank is in 1941
In the 1944-5 regular game though it's a tougher, more expensive T34 with slightly better AI that can't ram
This is NOT a heavy tank, don't try to use it as one
Urban Defence Rare
Not a common thing at all, but one of the things that can win a team game by itself, especially if the opposition have committed to unhelpful doctrines or don't know how to deal with it. It is rare enough that that is exactly what can happen
Forward Headquarters
Capstone ability for this is available at OCP.
Nothing else in this doctrine matters
Get this setup deep in enemy territory or at their cut off and ruin their day
It buffs, heals and reinforces friendly units around it, so enemies that try to attack and fight it head on bleed manpower and feed you vet
Most of the abilities that can kill it come later, but by then the damage is often done
Can be insanely scary on maps like Angermunde where they can leapfrog up a side
45mm AT Gun
Cute but cheap, and potent within the FHQ aura
Armoured Vehicle Detection
Booby trap territory
I feel this is too expensive for what it does
incendiary Artillery
Partisans Uncommon
Like FHQ, rare enough that people often don't expect them and can't deal with them. Used correctly will troll your opponent into razing every building on the map on general principle. Mark Target keeps vanilla armour relevant in the late game
Radio Intercept
Partisans
These lose a fair fight
Don't give the enemy a fair fight, harass team weapons, wounded units and artillery
Partisan tank hunters
As above, but to vehicles. Also excellent at outflanking and destroying bunkers
Spy Network
Less obvious recon
Mark Target
Soviet Industry Uncommon
Not Win-dustry anymore and a very hard commander to get right and co-ordinate with team mates. Often ends up starved of MP and swimming in munitions (so lay mines and charges EVERYWHERE)
Soviet Industry
Gives extra fuel income at expense of MP
Which means you don't need to build caches, except that your teammates will, so you get a bunch of fuel you cannot use, especially as you get close to pop cap
Repair Station
Teammates will appreciate these, but don't go overboard, lay mine instead
Vehicle Repair
You have the munitions to spare
KV-8
KV-2
This is not a heavy tank, its a mobile protected artillery piece. Use it to lock down whole areas and put some repair stations next to it, not to fight with
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
This was semi-relevant when the call ins came at 0CP, now it is pointless
120mm mortar
45mm ATG
Dishka HMG
This ought to wreck light vehicles, it doesn't
Tank Traps
Situational, if the enemy has left you alone long enough to get them up serves him right
Anti Personnel Mine
Um
Advanced Warfare Rare
Bit of a lighter version of Guards Motor, lacks its breadth but can be useful
Radio Intercept
No one cared about this when the NKVD guy had this; when this guy came along it was suddenly broken
PPSH
Conscript Repair
1 x T34/85
23mm Strafe
Lend-Lease Rare
Was very popular when it first came out because it had shermans
Complements a T4 build very well as it gives a half track and a medium tank, and T4 gives you Katuyshas for indirect punch
Dishka HMG
Given that no one uses the Defensive Commander seeing these is a give away
Allied Supply Drop
This is very expensive and unreliable conversion and the axis can really easily shoot it down
Conscript Repair
M5 Assault Group
Gives you a half track with guards, albeit with shock like equipment and not AT
Sherman
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
That's a lot of options, but many of them are duplicates and don't add anything new. Then there are others that are totally unique
Top Doctrines:
Shock Rifle
Shock Motor Disruption
Solid doctrines:
Mechanised Support
Lend lease
Counterattack
Guard Motor coordination
Solid Unconventional doctrines:
Urban Defence
Partisans
Ok in the right situation:
Combined Arms
Guard Motor Combined Arms
Marginal conventional doctrines:
Conscript Support
Armoured Assault
NKVD Rifle
Marginal unconventional doctrines:
Soviet Industry
Other commanders do this better:
Advanced Warfare (Guards Motor, Lend Lease)
Anti-Infantry
Soviet Shock Army Other shock doctrines
Terror
I can beat you no matter what commander I chose:
Defensive
Soviet Reserve
People think NKVD belongs here too, so that is really the message you send if someone sees it in your loadout
Posts: 1705
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
OKW pretty much killed off any vestiges of viability partisans or forward HQs had. They're in the "I can beat you no matter what" tier now. NKVD is definitely there as well, hell it's far worse than soviet reserve or defensive. OKW also pretty much removes one ability completely from lend lease (the fuel drop), which is why I really wouldn't rate it as highly as you do.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I would put Guard Motor on top (cause it has always been a top choice through every single patch IIRC) and switch the ISU shock commander with the one with Guards. Why? Well, having at hand button + Mark vehicle + Bombing strike, it's at the same level as having Recon + Stuka. You have the tools to counter your counter.
Posts: 2070
I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target. No matter the game size I'd rate guard motor and guard mechanized the top two commanders for soviets period. Third best is Shock rifle for 1vs1 and counterattack for team games. Shock motor acts as a gimpy, free version of guard mechanized. It's better to pick it than anything without ISU, but the guard one is simply better so there's little reason to ever pick shock motor.
OKW pretty much killed off any vestiges of viability partisans or forward HQs had. They're in the "I can beat you no matter what" tier now. NKVD is definitely there as well, hell it's far worse than soviet reserve or defensive. OKW also pretty much removes one ability completely from lend lease (the fuel drop), which is why I really wouldn't rate it as highly as you do.
When you say guard mechanized are you saying mechanized support doctrine?
I really like the Mechanized support because it gives you guards for soft AT and a bombing strike plus the beastly ISU. Shock Rifle is good as well
Posts: 2561
Posts: 2070
I really wish non-call in doctrines would become more viable. A faction should be able to stand on it's own throughout the game without a doctrine to stay relevant.
I agree. Every faction should be good on its own without commanders. Commanders should only add cool stuff or nice bonuses that compliment your playstyle or give u a little bit a strategic edge. Having commanders that do so much that even supplement the core units only make balance even harder.
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
I really wish non-call in doctrines would become more viable. A faction should be able to stand on it's own throughout the game without a doctrine to stay relevant.
So much this. Pretty much any soviet commander without a A) Arty piece B) Armor ability is not used.
Posts: 971
I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target. No matter the game size I'd rate guard motor and guard mechanized the top two commanders for soviets period. Third best is Shock rifle for 1vs1 and counterattack for team games. Shock motor acts as a gimpy, free version of guard mechanized. It's better to pick it than anything without ISU, but the guard one is simply better so there's little reason to ever pick shock motor.
Mechanized support doctrine (Guards/Mark Vehicle/ISU) has been my default doctrine for a long time, but since WFA release I can't get Guards to work in 2vs2 games as they got raped by Obers/Jaeger/Falls or Gren/LMG blobs.
Now I'm stuck with Shock Motor (Shocks/ISU) or Shock Rifle (Shocks/IS2), just because they have shocks that can hold the ground against OKW elite infantry, but I really miss Mark Vehicle because without it my T34/76s feel useless against heavy tanks and I have to rely absolutely in call-ins tanks.
Are currently Guards really competitive in 2vs2 against decent skilled axis teams? (Usually I move between rank 150~500 in the ladder)
How many Guards do you usually build? Do you support them with T1 or T2?
Posts: 2070
Then again Mechanized support seems very safe. Guards for light At Work, plus ambush camo, bomb strike for blobs, and ISU for late game.
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
OKW pretty much killed off any vestiges of viability partisans or forward HQs had. They're in the "I can beat you no matter what" tier now. NKVD is definitely there as well, hell it's far worse than soviet reserve or defensive. OKW also pretty much removes one ability completely from lend lease (the fuel drop), which is why I really wouldn't rate it as highly as you do.
FHQ can win a game, and Partisans whilst not powerful are a lot of fun.
As such I would not consider either useless, just niche
I think Lend Lease fuel drop is the least interesting and least useful part of the doctrine after conscript repair, so that doesn't matter too much to me. 3 useful calls in does matter to me
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
I'd say you're overrating shocks, and underrating guards and mark target.
I think Mark Target is awesome, that's why I think Partisans are relevant in the late game
But I do think right now that Shocks > Guards if only in team games
Shocks at least give you a chance against elite OKW infantry that Guards don't
Posts: 647
against 2v2s good teams, i would say stick to shocks as they give a more decisive edge when they can force mass retreats and people at that level know how to micro obers.
vet 3 guards however, are lovely.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Against Obers you necessarily needs something to act as a meatshield, if not you are just gonna bleed hard.
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