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What should Relic do to increase allies-players?

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Cannonade
13 Sep 2014, 12:18 PM
#241
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:06 PMGreeb
For me, a big first step would be making all factions able to fight early infantry engagements on a equal footing.

They can. Base infantry in early engagements is equal.
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:06 PMGreeb
Micro should be the decisive factor to win first battles.

It is.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:06 PMGreeb
Having factions with starting units that clearly are superior to others changes the game to a cat & mouse chase since the first minute, which is not really fun, specially for the player with the worst unit.

Cons are actually superior to others as starter units.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:06 PMGreeb
That is not really an allied issue only, but I think that axis early game is much more flexible and adaptable. USF only has rifles and Soviets are locked in their choosed tier.

Axis are the locked factions. Sov can lateralise with callins. You have it backwards.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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Zupadupadude
13 Sep 2014, 12:22 PM
#242
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Posts: 618

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Sep 2014, 16:07 PMNinjaWJ


I completely agree Sarantini! USF getting a nondoc Pershing will probably never happen because Relic and Sega need that $$$ from commander-specific units


They don't need heavy tanks. I seriously do not understand everyone saying there's problem with the USF's late game in team games. A bunch of Jacksons with units that can spot for them can kill Tiger's, Panther's and King Tiger's with ease.

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Cruzz
13 Sep 2014, 12:28 PM
#243
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:22 PMZupadupadude


They don't need heavy tanks. I seriously do not understand everyone saying there's problem with the USF's late game in team games. A bunch of Jacksons with units that can spot for them can kill Tiger's, Panther's and King Tiger's with ease.


No, sorry, they can't. With this new patch, USF have the crutch of the rather OP P47 run to rely on evening the tank situation lategame, but if that didn't exist panthers are ALWAYS going to win against jacksons when they're not outnumbered 3 to 1 (and they won't be seeing how the jackson is only 33% cheaper than panther)

I don't think USF necessarily needs a heavy tank though obviously it's what many people want just because heavy tanks are easy to use no brainer units. But Jacksons in their current state with the huge difference in effective supporting AT abilities on the axis side vs allied side are just not viable as an endgame solution to axis armor.
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Zupadupadude
13 Sep 2014, 12:30 PM
#244
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Posts: 618

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:28 PMCruzz


No, sorry, they can't. With this new patch, USF have the crutch of the rather OP P47 run to rely on evening the tank situation lategame, but if that didn't exist an equal amount of fuel in panthers are ALWAYS going to win against jacksons when they're not outnumbered 3 to 1 (and they won't be seeing how the jackson is only 33% cheaper than panther)



Um, fyi I didn't mean using them to go toe-to-toe with a Panther, because that's not how you should use them.

Look, I'm not saying the Jackson is perfect right now, but everyone blows the uneffectiveness of the USF's late game out of proportion.

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Greeb
13 Sep 2014, 12:34 PM
#245
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:18 PMCannonade
Base infantry in early engagements is equal.

Stopped reading there.

By the way, the thread is about proposing things to make allies appealing.
If you are going to start another BS faction war telling us how conscripts are on a equal footing to sturmpios or rifles against grens, then please go to troll elsewhere.
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Australian Magic
13 Sep 2014, 12:45 PM
#246
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:22 PMZupadupadude


They don't need heavy tanks. I seriously do not understand everyone saying there's problem with the USF's late game in team games. A bunch of Jacksons with units that can spot for them can kill Tiger's, Panther's and King Tiger's with ease.


Tell me, how to kill Axis' heavies with Jackson? Because because from what you say it looks like it's very easy.
And yes, it is when you face noob guy who thinks like "Whoaaaa, I have a Tiger! I will druve into your army and crush them! Yeaaa!! Tiger!!"

But if you face guy who know how-to-play it's almost impossible. There are always Volks or PzGrens with schrecks nearby but what's most important, there are AT Guns. Wounded Tiger, KT, Pather (what ever) will just drive back and get repairs, and then do it again.
You don't have any damage sponge to drive into range of this AT gun, take hit, finish almost-killed KT, take another hit and reverse.

I have countless games where KT was almost dead but it retreated behind PaK and after 1min it showed again with full health. No way to finish it without something heavy.
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Zupadupadude
13 Sep 2014, 12:50 PM
#247
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Posts: 618

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:45 PMAustralian Magic


Tell me, how to kill Axis' heavies with Jackson? Because because from what you say it looks like it's very easy.
And yes, it is when you face noob guy who thinks like "Whoaaaa, I have a Tiger! I will druve into your army and crush them! Yeaaa!! Tiger!!"

But if you face guy who know how-to-play it's almost impossible. There are always Volks or PzGrens with schrecks nearby but what's most important, there are AT Guns. Wounded Tiger, KT, Pather (what ever) will just drive back and get repairs, and then do it again.
You don't have any damage sponge to drive into range of this AT gun, take hit, finish almost-killed KT, take another hit and reverse.

I have countless games where KT was almost dead but it retreated behind PaK and after 1min it showed again with full health. No way to finish it without something heavy.


Well yea that's the problem. What I meant was that the US has powerful enough units to at least damage the German heavies to almost 0% health, the problem is that the Jackson can't really chase down and kill the heavies. I just thought people were blowing the uneffectiveness of the US's late game out of proportion.

What I would suggest is adding a M4A3E2(75)W (Jumbo) to the game.

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Cannonade
13 Sep 2014, 13:28 PM
#248
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:34 PMGreeb

Stopped reading there.

Except its true.
The entire baseline infantry stats and small arms are all based on that basic balance.
Its quite sound and functional. The earlier the game is infact, in many senses, the more balanced it is.
Most balance issues become an issue only due to a more advanced system of complications in balance that develop in later game stages.

At the start, though, its pretty stable, especially in terms of baseline infantry.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 12:34 PMGreeb
By the way, the thread is about proposing things to make allies appealing.
If you are going to start another BS faction war, please go to troll elsewhere.


The thread, and others like it, cover a veiled argument that somehow "appeal" implies balance.
It doesn't. And infact your own posts here have been specific to balance, and trying to cover them as if they wheren't a "BS faction war". Its called a strawman argument.

I know what you are trying, man, and its not gonna fly. Sorry.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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Greeb
13 Sep 2014, 14:09 PM
#249
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

Cannonade, just stop derailing every single post to try to pick a war against me. I don't give a shit about your balance suggestions here, as it should give you my opinions.
So stop arguing because this is not the place.

Don't answer me in this thread unless you have a suggestion to make allied factions more appealing. Do you understand?


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Cannonade
13 Sep 2014, 14:14 PM
#250
avatar of Cannonade

Posts: 752

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2014, 14:09 PMGreeb
Don't answer me in this thread unless you have a suggestion to make allied factions more appealing. Do you understand?


Not even sure what thats supposed to mean, but ok.

Make Allies wear pink uniforms. Will that help?

Wth does "appeal" have to do with anything?
Its certainly not related to balance.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
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MajorBloodnok
13 Sep 2014, 18:55 PM
#251
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13 pages in... that's pretty good really for the web. But to save everybody a final shot, I suggest we move on, and anybody who thinks this thread has more legs,is welcome to start afresh (in peace and harmony)....
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