Why are we still keeping that simplified upkeep system?

Back in vCOH, the upkeep of each units are different, it really helps balancing the ridiculous spam. I have no idea why COH2 making simplified, the more popcap you have, the more upkeep you pay, and let those stupid crap happens. Both players spam up to 8+ Cons to 5+ T-34/85 without a single building. No one would crazy enough enjoy playing against this bullshit.

Relic, if you want COH2 being more success than vCOH, please give up that stupid system, it is the only logical way to solve blobs problem.

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  1

  VS

  OPKommandWest. Qmotion OPKommandWest. Xeno

  Siu-King** Porygon

  vs 16+cons & 10+ T34/85

  by: Porygon map: Rails and Metal

  13

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Many players were already demanding this in Beta. One year later, nothing happened.

Many players were already demanding this in Beta. One year later, nothing happened.

and I was one of them.

I fought these guys twice. I don't see how one can beat this, but maybe some better players could enlighten me?

Anyways, even if they abuse spam"strats" there's no need to call them names. Seriously, if a game makes you rage that hard you should probably take a break every once in a while.

This system has to change, it was quite perfect in vcoh. Why not implement something that worked?!

Right now, if you cap the whole map, then the income is still the same with 100 popcap, so this means your enemy can just spam up an army and try to push you back. This doesn't reward outplaying your opponent early/mid game.

besides you beeing right about the upkeep, posting replays where you show nothing more then your disgusting behaviour doesnt help your credit.

The popcap and upkeep in vCoH were properly implemented systems imo (if someone can point out some issues go ahead). I guess Relic doesn't like the saying "If aint broke, dont fix it".

Balance issues aside I feel that the current population system is one of the biggest issues with this game at the moment. The game should promote combined arms. Due to how limited the population is it kind of forces you to spam the most efficient thing you can.

This is one of those bad decisions Relic made of "Streamline" the experience and totally kills all the depth of the game. The upkeep system was perfect in vcoh, yes it was quite difficult to understand but you didnt have to understand it. You get some upkeep with more units and less upkeep with more territory there was no need to know anything more than that.

Upkeep in vCoH was nowhere near as severe as in CoH2 (even with the most upkeep-heavy faction, the US, before purchasing the supply yard bonus).

If you think upkeep should be used to discourage spam - are you talking about incremental upkeep - bigger upkeep the more units of the same type you have?

Back in vCOH, the upkeep of each units are different, it really helps balancing the ridiculous spam. I have no idea why COH2 making simplified, the more popcap you have, the more upkeep you pay, and let those stupid crap happens. Both players spam up to 8+ Cons to 5+ T-34/85 without a single building. No one would crazy enough enjoy playing against this bullshit.

Relic, if you want COH2 being more success than vCOH, please give up that stupid system, it is the only logical way to solve blobs problem.

•  
  

  1

  VS

  OPKommandWest. Qmotion OPKommandWest. Xeno

  Siu-King** Porygon

  vs 16+cons & 10+ T34/85

  by: Porygon map: Rails and Metal

  13

  -

But the upkeep of each unit IS different in CoH2 as well. Can you detail how the old upkeep system would help discourage the kind of spam you describe?

This looks to me like the same old call-in efficiency problem, and not necessarily a population problem.

Thanks for the good replay. Going to use this in the future.

Maybe because the whole game design is too simplified and doing some sensible thing on Relic's end never gonna happen.

Funny thing is Cons + T-3485s are pain is the ass to deal with, this replay and Lenny's play prove this and every no-brainer can do this shit.

the upkeep of each unit IS different. 1.5 manpower less per minute per pop cap you have. By virtue of a T34-85 having 14 pop cap and a conscript squad having 6 popcap both units have different upkeep values.

What the real issue is that teching is not worth it when you can get really strong tanks for equivalent resource costs.

but if you want to go back to the CoH1 system where 1 rifleman squad had the same upkeep as three pumas then that's cool as well. Don't know how it will help solve your issue though.

But the upkeep of each unit IS different in CoH2 as well. Can you detail how the old upkeep system would help discourage the kind of spam you describe?

This looks to me like the same old call-in efficiency problem, and not necessarily a population problem.

I think he is talking about the amount of territories held influencing your popcap. In CoH2 it is set to 100. In CoH, it was dependant on how much territory the player held. Imho, CoH had the better system. No "pulling out an (insert super heavy tank call in here) out of your ass" after being pushed back all game.

If we had a modified "old" popcap system, I think teching would be taken in to consideration again instead of relying on call ins. No territory -> low popcap.

Got to say, there is only one major thing I miss in CoH2 that would make the game much more competetive. Thats the original popcap system from CoH1. But I saw someone post on the topic about Gamescom Relic will make it possible to mod the game. So I really hope a good modder like Janne will make this and I would play that mod instead of the original CoH2 all the time (if there were enough players that would be playing it).

The popcap system was just a way to prevent spamming units.. Like other people said befor in this topic: Why take away something that worked perfectly.

I guess Relic wanted more people to play the game, and this makes it easier. Just spamming and blobbing..

Ah well, I really hope modding will be possible soon.. In 1v1's I have a lot of fun. But 2v2 is just boring spam and blob fest..

I agree bring back original pop cap, its silly that this game favors comebacks so easy.

The problem with the vCoH system was it was a lot harder to maintain. You had to change the upkeep of all individual units if you wanted to make mass changes, and it was one more thing to worry about when adding new units into the game. It provided a lot more freedom, of course, but that freedom came at the cost of complexity.

Relic stated long before release that its goal was to drastically simplify the underlying framework of the game, presumably to make it easier to add new units and abilities via commander DLC. This means simplified resource structuring (generalized resource points on maps instead of highly specific ones), simplified upkeep, and simplified unit stats. You can see this philosophy in action easily when looking at unit stats. There aren't armour types or target tables or any of that fancy, complicated stuff that allowed people to greatly customize the balance between any two units but added extreme complexity. Instead, you have simple armour, health, and damage, which makes subtle balancing a lot more difficult but the adding of new units a breeze.

This is a design decision Relic likely made before any sort of development actually began. I would be extremely surprised if they changed it, given their comments and actions in the past.

The Problem with this pure conspam strategy is not the way the popcap works.

The problem is how conscripts and some sov commanders are designde.

Basically what Inverse said; they dumbed down the system to facilitate the easy addition of DLC.

Modders, such as myself, and others, get to pay for it when (IF) modding support is (re-)enabled.