Ostheer Grenadier LMG42 spam

So I played a handful of games yesterday, and I constantly faced a huge blob of grenadiers with this, and various other units thrown in.

I'm fine dealing with sturmpioneers and volks, but for some reason I just can't hack the power of this blob. The few games I won were against poor players using incendiary artillery and a KV-8 to chase him back to his base.

What are your strategies for countering these guys? I normally play 2v2 with a US ally, so any suggestions from that side are also welcome...

Any sort of armour will do, including he Flak HT. IS-2 is a good choice because even if you mismicro you have a good chance his faust will just bounce off your frontal armor. ISU will close down any German inf play, but frankly its a bit lame. If you are going for a Shock doctrine just generically pop smoke then close in. If you manage to vet your Shocks early they will still walk all over Grens in the late game. US can go for a counterblob with 1919 MGs, Pack Howies attrite Grens badly, as do Shermans. Early snipers usually win you the manpower game and keep the Grens at a manageable level. Conscripts with PPSH are alot more viable in this patch then they used to be but its still tricky since timing is imperative.

IS-2 arrives far too late and is too expensive. If he backs it with a pak, it will handle the armour just fine.

Running PPSh squads in is still suicide - the amount of A move is frustrating. Snipers will also get walked over - they dont have time to take shots.

I've had some mixed success with maxims, but its still very frustrating.

It does seem like US has many more tools to counter, so I guess thats a plus.

1) Shocks + smoke to close in
2) sniper spam
3) M5 quad (very micro intensive)
5) T34 spam (once vetted is pretty easy to destroy blobs with two of them. You can also try to run over the blob in narrow places)
6) Maxims, even if that means a downtech.

I just had a great team game using a couple of katyushas to shut down gren and fusilier blobs. Either they retreated immediately, or took enough damage that either my shocks (with smoke) or my teammates' maxims and t34s tore them apart.

I had the same issue lately. I found spamming hmgs works, have to have two close to each other so you can stop flanks. Also the usf gun cariages works well and ever better in conjunction with a hmg.

The combined dps power of an lmg blob is ridiculous to deal with sometimes.

So I played a handful of games yesterday, and I constantly faced a huge blob of grenadiers with this, and various other units thrown in.

I'm fine dealing with sturmpioneers and volks, but for some reason I just can't hack the power of this blob. The few games I won were against poor players using incendiary artillery and a KV-8 to chase him back to his base.

What are your strategies for countering these guys? I normally play 2v2 with a US ally, so any suggestions from that side are also welcome...

You need this



I find that going for Shocks and ZIS barrage works very well. You could also go SU76 spam barrage on the blob. Works wonders.

yes i agree the barrage works great if you can predict their movement.

LMG gren blobs do so much damage though. they snipe off models ridiculously fast

1) Shocks + smoke to close in
2) sniper spam
3) M5 quad (very micro intensive)
5) T34 spam (once vetted is pretty easy to destroy blobs with two of them. You can also try to run over the blob in narrow places)
6) Maxims, even if that means a downtech.

you can kill infantry by running them over?

you can kill infantry by running them over?

It's possible but sometimes it's hard to pull off. Basically you have to pin the infantry in a spot where they can't run away fast or enough or get blocked by walls or objects. Usually if you reach max speed with medium tanks and quickly turn into a squad you'll get a few kills. It's easier to do on blobs. You cannot run over retreating squads.

Example: http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6394/l46.gif

It's possible but sometimes it's hard to pull off. Basically you have to pin the infantry in a spot where they can't run away fast or enough or get blocked by walls or objects. Usually if you reach max speed with medium tanks and quickly turn into a squad you'll get a few kills. It's easier to do on blobs. You cannot run over retreating squads.

sweettt

M10 best counter

http://www.twitch.tv/vonivan/c/4787107

But seriously you can try Demos to wipe squads capping and limit numbers, Go for a ISU late game, or go for 120mm mortar as grens must stop moving to use LMGs.

Though LMG grens are clearly too effective for their cost for whatever reason

They have to be still to use the LMGs - makes them arty bait, a single mortar can have a field day so try that. Guards with LMGs can work but I find shock troops are the best as someone else posted - smoke and then move forward. Obviously if you're facing a spam then 1 shock won't cut it but two should be able to deal damage to 3-4 grens with LMGs esp. If you're good with your smoke placement.

Soviets work best as combined arms, as we know, a HMG, a mortar, a couple of infantry squads and you should be able to deal with the blob. Be ready to move your HMG and mortars though, it's better to suppress and move than try and pin and let the enemy get close enough to nade you. Combine your support weapons (or snipers if you go that route) with a couple of script squads focus firing from cover or a couple of penal squads with flamers in cover or best shock with smoke rush you should fair better against this.

But it is powerful, when I play ostheer I generally get 2 occasionally 3 gren squads and give them LMGs, I find mortars and close in shock or conscript squads with ppsh's are the quickest and easiest counters that or a sniper or two.

The Anti-Infantry Tactics Doctrine works quite well. Propaganda Artillery (or whatever it's called) will suppress the blob and give your infantry time to close in or force an immediate retreat. This ability doesn't drop smoke ahead of the barrage either, so it's hard for your opponent to tell it's on the way.

Obviously KV8s are effective, but you'll get 'fausted, so if they have a Pak around, you might lose it.

If you play with a US ally, get him to go Armor Doctrine. It comes late, but the bulldozer tank literally plows through infantry. I mean, you could probably get insta-vet 3 if you cornered the blob and ran over them all. Plus the howitzer shot has decent AOE damage and is less risky than trying to run them over.

Probably the easiest strategy to implement though is as follows:

1. Control the munitions. Make the muni points a higher priority because if you can deny them to the enemy, they don't get LMG42s as quickly.

2. As has been mentioned, use demo charges! Place one along a well used path while the blob is somewhere else and try to draw them in. Soft retreat ahead of them to bring them in the right direction and press the button. Manpower bleed will be really high if this happens a couple of times, so you should be able to get armor out way ahead of them.

If you're still worried, grab an early T-70 and kite it carefully to rack up more kills. The lookout/scouting ability on it will let you see them before they can see you so you can prepare better.

The Vet 3 bonus for the Grens gives LMG Grens a strong buff thus not only giving them more armor but making their LMGs turn into obersoldaten LMG34s. Which I'm saying because I assume you've been taking on vet 3 lmg grens.

Yes they are very annoying and wreck you hard especially when vetted.

This is how I deal with them as Soviets

1. Mortars work well because Axis will generally just blob the Grens. A good mortar hit will make the Axis player hurt badly.

2. HMGs like Maxim can control the blob and give you time for Mortar strikes or a grenade

3. Make sure you are in cover, especially conscripts. Conscripts get sniped fast

4. Barrage them with ZiS! Since Grens will generally be clumped and immobile while firing, a barrage can wreak havoc amongst them!

The worst thing will happen if they keep spam rifle grenade too, especially when vet. so be careful!

ISU HE shots still insta-wipe squads (but that come pretty late). T70 does wonders if microd well. Also hiding your shocks and using TruSight is effective.
Do not forget Demo charges and Cons vet 1 ability (can't remember the name. It's cheap and kills 1 model and give you map awareness so you can coordinate your shocks.
120mm mortar is also great but very RNG dependent.
If you chose a commander with good late game units (ISU/IS2/T34/85) consider bringing 1 (or even 2 in a team game when your ally can support you) Katyushas. Super effective.
Maxim is great but a gren blob can wipe it with 2 Rifle-grenades.