OKW general strategy discussion

lets discuss some possibilities. We have solid, all around strat with no particular weakness - Ciel'z puma opener (watch his video of u dont know what it is about. It is really great). But waht about high risk, high reward strats? What is OKW good at, is adapting. We can drag game to late, when we have clear advantage with 5 levels of veterancy and some great late-game units. Cielz strat is good all around, but it is not using the strongest okw units, playing like osthneer's little brother.

What I suggest is we discuss other possibilities, like lemon's double sturmpio build. Lets brainstorm.

I will start - i have an idea. How about using Flak HT with Infrared truck? this way light vehicles or that pesky doble zooks couldnt take it by surprise.

spamming Fussies with all ammo going to G43s with medics and then into Puma, then either another puma, or maybe a Flak Track if you feel risky.

That can be tricky for them to face, because you can actually out shoot their inf early game, and light vehicles wont help them. If they get zooks... their inf is further screwed.

My strat:

volks
kubel
volks
sturm pios
Medic HQ

That is the early build, adaption from here on out is key:

Reketenwerfer and panzershreck on volks if its vs US and you see lieutenant + 3 rifles with no upgrades

Fusilier commander unit if its captain first (you see upgrades or no lieutenant and 4 rifles)

Fusiliers

mech command truck: use fuel exchange if you think an early vehicle is coming out such as a stuart or T34. Munitions exchange if you are playing against Sovs and see T1+T2 play (you have time to build munitions before tanks arrive)

From here its a late game which I cannot really for certain say what my build is, I might have to replace a sturm pio unit or need another reketenwerfer, Maybe even a stuka fuss.

I don't like to use the rss convert ability too early on as you lose more than what you gain and both rss are needed. Occasionally I'll active it for short bursts just to get a certain unit or ability out. Then sometimes late game if I want more armour or decide I have enough armour and want to spam off maps.

That is, if u have off maps. How about special ops doctrine? Personaly i think it is the worst of 3 basic - almost no early bonuses, ober upgade is meh.... and i never even tried radio silence.
THe way i see it first real choice is commander. Second is t1 or t2 (medtruck or techtruck). If u get mg's u can skip t3, if not - i prefer to use flacktruck to lock crucial part of map - protect medtruck, fuel, cutoff or all together.
Second dilemma is surviving mid-game. We have to rely on call-ins. That is being fusiliers or Fallshirmjaegers. Going special ops provides no callins so i tend to rely more on sturmios, when i try it. So, speaking resource-optimisation, we dont need t3. We have strong AT (jagdpanzer), arty, support vehicle (puma).
One more point. I usualy strugle to make good use of flack HT - i want to try byilding strat around it, but i just cant keep it alive through game. it just falls apart ofter couple of hits from at guns or zooks. It is too effing fragile...

ive never used the radio silence ability, i figure if im in sight than my units have probably auto attacked the enemy and given away their position already.

their early bonus comes with the grenade assault, and the flares are useful lategame when scouting an enemy position before an attack. check for MG arcs and where their at guns are at. also good for spotting for your support guns and stukas.

also flak half tracks require your opponent to go a certain tech to make full advantage of (US has to go LT but then you have to kill or deter their own flak halftrack some how, and Soviets have to go t1 or else an AT gun will kill you) theres a small window where halftrack is king of the field and during that time you have to get vet 1 to gain access to its smoke grenades, so when AT guns arrive you can just smoke and displace.

Yeah, but it would be easier if it was more like USF HT. It costs around the same, and really underperforms in comparison....

yes, but the OKW have the puppchen while the US must research the captain to get access to their AT gun

I am strating tio think im not using pupchen to it fullest pitential. I so got used to puma, i forgot we had budget AT gun in our arsenal...
Rly tho. it is must have to place in area near flachtruck - th enemy will definetly try to swarm it with vehicles at some point

But thats the beauty of it, as soon as you see it getting swarmed, it can retreat!

I really like the Special OP commander, in 2v2 at least.
Radio silence is meh but the grenades are the best bang for buck in the game, especially for OKW! The Ober upgrade is good on smaller maps or for flanking and the artillery flares are liek a invincible recon. Good for chooinsg artillery targets and against howitzers which your teammate can then take out with an airstrike.
Command panther is a better panther for a neglegible higher cost, it boosts your all your TEAMS vehicles in a big, big radius and has the ever useful mark target.

As mentioned before this commander has one weakness and that is that it lacks call in infantry for the midgame. That is why you tech to the flak HQ after converting your first truck to get those flashlight obers rolling. I usually dont spend any fuel on vehicles betweent he converting if its an even game. Sometimes I get it after a puma if needed.

So my general build order is:
volk
Kubel if there is a us player otherwise skipped
volk
Sturm on smaller maps/ Volk on larger maps
Then I get teh medtruck on larger maps because the both the ISG and JP4 are great on open maps
I usally get a raketwerfer and isg at this point and save for next truck
On smaller maps I go the repair truck because I find the puma better on smaller maps because of the turret, stukazufuss also shines on smaller maps.

I dont like using the reource conversion in the beginning. I want both my first shreck and my puma/flak truck as soon as possible.

i actually dont like the upgraded stg44s that much. I figure since obers are so expensive to reinforce i want them as far from incoming fire as possible and the mg34 already has godlike burst damage so i never upgrade them

Thanks for the nice feedback Domenic I love OKW, they're definitely my favorite faction - plan on getting my top 10 back when I'm back in town!

Anyways, I think aggressive OKW play is mostly hampered because of the M15 AA HT being just completely nuts at the moment. Not to mention that aggressive infantry being locked behind expensive tech (Obers) or CPs (Fallshirms) makes being aggressive early on difficult.

That being said, I'll work on a more refined aggressive strat next week but I believe something like: Kubel, 2nd Sturm, Kubel, Volk, 251 Flak, Raketen could work - at least once the M15 is brought more into line (hopefully a range nerf?). The 251 Flak is amazingly strong against Lt openers, plus it is great at camping cut-offs. Unfortunately the M15 just takes the 251 Flak to #RektCity.

The goal of the build would be to send the first Kubel + Sturm to their fuel, the second pair to your fuel and then have the Volk cap up the rear/give support where necessary. Both Kubels could run around protecting each other and forcing retreats really quickly, plus you'd have plenty of repair power around. You'd want to keep them off fuel as much as possible to delay the M20/M15/AT guns as long as possible (since either of these will totally wreck Kubels). Hopefully you could have your 251 Flak in a good spot, guarded by the raketen + 1 schrek'd up Volk. Other muni would probably be put towards mines to further entrench the cut off. I think it'd work really nicely with that fortifications doctrine. In theory you could use your 2nd sturms to wire up your side of most maps to force them into fighting on your terms. And the combination of MG34 + 251 Flak + raketen + mines everywhere sounds fun.

Seems like your prayers got answered: the M15A1 has had its range decreased!

In light of recent patch luftwaffe becomes even more powerful (40% ROF buff on mg and supression). Flack HT is good as reaction and area denial - if i go doctrine with no mg's. It should really have some kind of survivability buff. Id like it to survive mor than couple of salvos from cap...bad armor + setup time = dead HT. If only it could move right away without setting up...maybe longer setup, but instant moving after that. I was trying other doctrines - special ops i find extremely nishe ( i dont know that that nishe is even). Playing around with elite armored and breakthrough. I can really see breakthrough working with no light vehicles (medtruck into t4 and fast lucht or panther). Also Lucht is really underrated. It just wrecks infantry - effctively countering zooks even. I used it once with puma to some great results. lucht, then panther might work - need further investigation. this goes without saying, but you need puppshen (AT gun) if u are not getting puma. elite armor doctrine is better now - with more munitions to use its abilities. I think maybe puma into panther or p4 battle group. Infantry-wise - it is also required to get flacktruck pretty fast (second building), if u have no call-in infantry unit. Couple squads of obers can turn the infantry battles in your favor. Also consider picking elite armor doctrine little later - it dont bring any really usevful early game abilities so u need to weight your options. It is unwise to go for no-infantry doctrine, if they spam riflemen (elite rifle doctrine, anyone? such BS). They didnt tone down BAR perfomance even slightly - big shock to me.
On the off-note. General munition buff is HUGE for OKW. Makes scavenge doctrine even more desired choice (dont have it, but i can see u amassing huge piles of ammunitions with it and spamming off-map arty and planting mines on whole map). Now it is easier somewhat to use grenades, shreck comes little earlier and it gives some more options (mines, weapon upgrades on fusiliers, special doctrinal abilites, u name it).

People keep writting off the Obbers STG44 upgrade as not worth it, but remember they are still a long range unit with this upgrade, the main difference is (due to infrared scopes), they have amplified damage against units in cover.. so they work like a flame thrower (well without AoE), which is obviously something pretty special.

Not always needed, but certainly powerful on some maps..

wow. didnt know about cover thingy (with IR scopes). Are u certain about this?

Anyway - posting a video of me playing against vet riflemen doctrine. It is free now and pretty annoying with easy 8 sherman call-ins. It almost eliminates the USF need to get major tier...LT into Cap into easy8 spam is pretty good and not hard to execute. In this game he techs slowly, but i can see this work too. I've been working on adaptable strategy for some time and this game i use part of it, and do decent job if i say so myself. Im not a pro, not even close, but this particular build can be useful to casual players.

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  x9tommyx3

  Kristof

  vs vet riflemen doctrine

  by: DomenicAlecto map: Road to Kharkov

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P.S. I didnt get AT gun, because he played pretty bad, but it would be okay to throw it in somwhere around mid-game.

P.P.S. wow. so much munitions, i dont know what to do with it now...

edit: some **** happened, so i am trying to reupload this

I've been trying going Infantry in to Fuel Conversion in to Panther just to see how an Earlier Panther fair's it does well vs T34/76's and Shermans, if you know how to use it, but other than that it just. eh.. It can bounce Jacksons, but in a 1:1 fight it comes down to RNG, Jackson will almost always get the first shot, the Panther needs to bounce and hit every single shot to win. I just, Panther needs some love, be it HP, Sight range or Rate of fire, oh and target priority.

Shame too I used to love the Panther Now it's just, most times I'd rather have a Sturmtiger.

I think you are not doing it right. It is not wise to directly slug out with jackson. Panther has good mobility for armor that strong, so getting flanck on jackson can provide much needed edge. It is whole other story, if they have it protected by at guns. On the other hand, panther is much more universal than specialised tank-destroyer that is jackson. Also it is nigh imposssible for USF to destroy it without some very bad play by okw player.

Panther only has good Frontal Armour, its side and rear Armour can be penetrated by pretty much anything.

Panther is only "universal" because it has MG's other than that it is a dedicated "Mobile" Tank Destroyer.