Well what I know of fighting games, they are like SC:BW and SC2. Spreadsheet damage and only played skill. Just like in CS, Quake etc. for FPS-
In other games luck comes into as a major factor *cough* CoH f.example *cough* and that kills competive play in most events and as a spectator sport.
Did player A win because he was more skilled or just more lucky than player B? It is not a good basis for competetive play.
Yes luck is always a factor in competition but you will always try to minimize that factor, even in IRL sports.
In CoH luck plays a huge factor. It is simply not competetive by nature, despite what some people from Relic might claim.
Fighting Games
4 May 2013, 16:49 PM
#81
Posts: 36
4 May 2013, 17:24 PM
#82
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
Quite a few fighters involve 50/50 guessing scenarios. Good players know how to avoid putting them selves in those situations.
Same with CoH, that's why it's usually the same guys finishing in the top 8 of tournaments. After Seven years it's not as if all the variables of CoH are unknown or new to most people.
Same with CoH, that's why it's usually the same guys finishing in the top 8 of tournaments. After Seven years it's not as if all the variables of CoH are unknown or new to most people.
4 May 2013, 17:50 PM
#83
Posts: 36
I'm not talking about guessing scenarios which you can learn to predict.
I'm talking about unreliability in units hitting and doing damage.
If I take fighter A and do some punch against fighter B, and fighter B doesn't move or block fighter B will take some damage.
If I place an AT gun against an unmoving tank the tank isn't sure to take damage, despite AT gun being the counter to said tank.
That is not part of "guessing wrong", that is just bad design from a competetive standpoint. It may feel realistic and oh so great when it is your tank doing something like that. But it is just not a good basis for major tournaments and lots of spectators.
I'm talking about unreliability in units hitting and doing damage.
If I take fighter A and do some punch against fighter B, and fighter B doesn't move or block fighter B will take some damage.
If I place an AT gun against an unmoving tank the tank isn't sure to take damage, despite AT gun being the counter to said tank.
That is not part of "guessing wrong", that is just bad design from a competetive standpoint. It may feel realistic and oh so great when it is your tank doing something like that. But it is just not a good basis for major tournaments and lots of spectators.
4 May 2013, 18:43 PM
#84
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
Ah ok, I think that the "random" damage output can be good for spectators because engagements involving the same units can be different every time it can build tension and it can tell a great story.
For the players I guess not so much but in tournaments people should be playing at least best of three which helps minimize randomness deciding the outcome of a match.
So personally I don't think the random factor is a big deal, what the game needs is more competitive events and that's where we as a community come in to play.
For the players I guess not so much but in tournaments people should be playing at least best of three which helps minimize randomness deciding the outcome of a match.
So personally I don't think the random factor is a big deal, what the game needs is more competitive events and that's where we as a community come in to play.
4 May 2013, 23:38 PM
#85
Posts: 36
Well I think the game needs less random factors, also the average game length needs to be shortened somehow from 40 minutes to an average of 20 mins. Also action needs to be more fast paced, happen quicker and more often (in general).
At least to be an spectator magnet.
I am not hating on the game, I just don't believe it has the potential to participate in huge events or draw in loads of spectators.
While I personally enjoy the game style, when I am playing, I find that when watching a stream I rarely actually get captivated by what is on screen but more often the chat not giving any notice to the game.
At least to be an spectator magnet.
I am not hating on the game, I just don't believe it has the potential to participate in huge events or draw in loads of spectators.
While I personally enjoy the game style, when I am playing, I find that when watching a stream I rarely actually get captivated by what is on screen but more often the chat not giving any notice to the game.
5 May 2013, 11:27 AM
#86
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
I dont think game length is an issue any more to be honest. Dota 2 and lol games can easily go on for an hour and they get great viewership numbers.
People have fun playing the game, they have fun playing in events and a lot of casts are getting good numbers on youtube and twitch. There is room for growth, the community needs to keep pushing it forward.
People have fun playing the game, they have fun playing in events and a lot of casts are getting good numbers on youtube and twitch. There is room for growth, the community needs to keep pushing it forward.
5 May 2013, 21:50 PM
#87
Posts: 36
Well I wish you luck with driving that forward.
5 May 2013, 22:55 PM
#88
Posts: 486
Everytime someone complains about the CoH random, I have to mention Sephas hero Croc(s). As IP said, the new stories you can get from the same engagement keeps it exciting for viewers IMO. :9
No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.
6 May 2013, 00:55 AM
#89
Posts: 36
Imagine if the referee in soccer was allowed to judge by the logic of "despite that goal was scored by hand, I will let it slide for a great story"?
I just believe this game to not have any chance of succeeding in a major way as a competetive e-sport and everyone who believes otherwise to live in an illusion.
It will forever belong in the niche departement, as long as you can't rely on your AT gun actually damaging the (non-microed) tank despite it being placed properly.
But I will stop debating this now.
I just believe this game to not have any chance of succeeding in a major way as a competetive e-sport and everyone who believes otherwise to live in an illusion.
It will forever belong in the niche departement, as long as you can't rely on your AT gun actually damaging the (non-microed) tank despite it being placed properly.
But I will stop debating this now.
6 May 2013, 00:57 AM
#90
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
6 May 2013, 01:24 AM
#91
Posts: 36
Wow you manage to find something that was against rules but not judged against. Human error.
"the goal made by maradona made with his hands. it was counted as a goal becuase the referee didnt see it. it was during the 1986 world cup ending with argentina winning 2-1 against england. After argentina won the world cup."
Running out of arguments already?
"the goal made by maradona made with his hands. it was counted as a goal becuase the referee didnt see it. it was during the 1986 world cup ending with argentina winning 2-1 against england. After argentina won the world cup."
Running out of arguments already?
6 May 2013, 02:07 AM
#92
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
It was against the rules and the referee made a bad call but it still produced a great story, however an AT gun not penetrating a tank isn't the same as a referee making an incorrect call which can cost a team a match. Especially with all computer games they should be played at least best of three and at least follow the double elimination format.
I'm going to take it back a bit, so you believe that CoH can't be a competitive game because of the luck factor in the game. Why do the top seeds for most tournaments end up coming in the places they are expected? With luck playing as big a factor as you say then shouldn't there be random people winning or are the top players consistently lucky?
Anyway the only way to solve this is to get this game somewhere and I believe it can. People find it fun to play and it has it's audience, which has been steadily growing over the past few months.
Back to FG content
Kelvin vs Combofiend in a FT7 match in SFxT 2013
I'm going to take it back a bit, so you believe that CoH can't be a competitive game because of the luck factor in the game. Why do the top seeds for most tournaments end up coming in the places they are expected? With luck playing as big a factor as you say then shouldn't there be random people winning or are the top players consistently lucky?
Anyway the only way to solve this is to get this game somewhere and I believe it can. People find it fun to play and it has it's audience, which has been steadily growing over the past few months.
Back to FG content
Kelvin vs Combofiend in a FT7 match in SFxT 2013
6 May 2013, 09:38 AM
#93
Posts: 172
Talking about CoH and RNG, I still think the game would retain roughly the same feeling, yet get less frustrating, if they implemented pseudo-RNG rather than true RNG.
That being said, as much as I hate RNG, several of my favorite games(XCOM, CoH, Fire Emblem, Heroes, ++) involve heavy RNG elements. However, what defines a good player in these games are often how good you are at avoiding dice roll situations entirely. XCOM is a prime example of this; the RNG in that game is so horribly implemented that it's not even funny, but if you're smart enough you'll very rarely be in a situation where you have to roll the dice.
Also, certain fighting games have RNG elements in them as well, Street Fighter 2 and Super Smash Brothers in particular.
OT:
So I think my main in Injustice will be Black Adam. He looks cool, has a divekick, a sick cross-up and some goddamn good frame trap/mix up setups if his trait is used correctly, and even if those traps/setups miss the opponent will take quite a bit of chip damage just from his trait.
That being said, as much as I hate RNG, several of my favorite games(XCOM, CoH, Fire Emblem, Heroes, ++) involve heavy RNG elements. However, what defines a good player in these games are often how good you are at avoiding dice roll situations entirely. XCOM is a prime example of this; the RNG in that game is so horribly implemented that it's not even funny, but if you're smart enough you'll very rarely be in a situation where you have to roll the dice.
Also, certain fighting games have RNG elements in them as well, Street Fighter 2 and Super Smash Brothers in particular.
OT:
So I think my main in Injustice will be Black Adam. He looks cool, has a divekick, a sick cross-up and some goddamn good frame trap/mix up setups if his trait is used correctly, and even if those traps/setups miss the opponent will take quite a bit of chip damage just from his trait.
6 May 2013, 13:40 PM
#94
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
I saw dragongod at NLBC using Black Adam. Seemed like he had some great damage output as well.
6 May 2013, 14:13 PM
#95
Posts: 172
I can do 50% damage flat if I get a cross-up medium and use my trait and one bar. So yes, he's got great damage.
He's also apparently considered top five atm by the american top players, along with Superman, Batman, Aquaman and Killer Frost.
He's also apparently considered top five atm by the american top players, along with Superman, Batman, Aquaman and Killer Frost.
6 May 2013, 14:17 PM
#96
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
I'll probably pick it up after exams, currently don't have the time to get into a new fighter.
6 May 2013, 19:53 PM
#97
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
So Jaxel has just established Yo Kappa! A forum for stream monsters.
9 May 2013, 04:42 AM
#98
Posts: 486
Imagine if the referee in soccer was allowed to judge by the logic of "despite that goal was scored by hand, I will let it slide for a great story"?
I just believe this game to not have any chance of succeeding in a major way as a competetive e-sport and everyone who believes otherwise to live in an illusion.
It will forever belong in the niche departement, as long as you can't rely on your AT gun actually damaging the (non-microed) tank despite it being placed properly.
But I will stop debating this now.
I'd liken it more to poker than Soccer. One can play everything right and have a great chance of winning with a amazing hand, then lose because the cards turned up wrong. Poker is about risking, risk management and understanding the game so that you can make as calculated risks as possible. That is way closer to CoH, and poker is big competitively and commercially.
I don't believe CoH will succeed in a major way as a e-sport, but I enjoy it immensely and I think that if it could be brought to a big stage, it could be well received due to what it gives to the viewer.
No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.
10 May 2013, 10:17 AM
#99
Posts: 172
So apparently ChrisG is pretty good at MAHVEL.
10 May 2013, 11:11 AM
#100
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
NYC as a whole is pretty sick at Marvel.
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