Hey guys,
Like I already wrote in the ISU-Thread. In my opinion the changes to the former range-100-units (Elefant, ISU, PaK43) seems to be a buff for ISU and nerf for for Elefant and PaK43 overall. The ISU is good against Tanks and good against Infannty (squad-wiping). The Elefant is only good against vehicles. And while the ISU usually didnt benefit that well from its former range due its lower sight, the Elefant could really benefit from it with TunnelView+Scope. Although the PaK43, which is an immobile, expensive, easily-decrewed AT-Gun got a big nerf in my opinion.
So increasing PaK43-range back to 100 again (now 80) and Elefant at least to range 90 (now 70) would be a good decision in my point of view.
What's your opinion?
Former range-100-units
11 Jul 2014, 00:39 AM
#1
Posts: 100
11 Jul 2014, 00:40 AM
#2
Posts: 627
Nope.
11 Jul 2014, 00:49 AM
#3
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
Nope.
11 Jul 2014, 00:52 AM
#4
Posts: 410
Nope. Maybe making Elephant faster when turning but not in driving speed.
11 Jul 2014, 01:13 AM
#5
Posts: 476
I don't now about the Elephant, but the Pak43 really should get more range. I would suggest atleast 90.
For the Pak43 the range means something diffrent then for the tds, because its the area of its effect. It's the ground it covers. For every other calculation, the range of the Pak43 doesn't really factor in as much.
And btw, great answers you guys...
For the Pak43 the range means something diffrent then for the tds, because its the area of its effect. It's the ground it covers. For every other calculation, the range of the Pak43 doesn't really factor in as much.
And btw, great answers you guys...
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
11 Jul 2014, 05:52 AM
#6
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Nope.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Jul 2014, 05:55 AM
#7
Posts: 647
nope, maybe the pak43 and all static guns get some buff against offmap nukes.
11 Jul 2014, 06:05 AM
#8
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
The elephant and ISU need to be on same range to avoid those dull vs wars we had prior to wfa launch.
11 Jul 2014, 06:09 AM
#9
Posts: 1702
Nope.
11 Jul 2014, 06:18 AM
#10
Posts: 2779
Nope.
I know Ele is dumped into trash unit bin, but I don't care.
I know Ele is dumped into trash unit bin, but I don't care.
11 Jul 2014, 09:30 AM
#11
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Yes.
The Elephant is useless. For roughly the same price as an elephant -
- OKW gets the jagdtiger, which has more range, more splash, and can shoot through buildings/obstacles.
- Soviets get the ISU152, which can deal with both infantry and tanks, though the elephant has better AT.
- USF get nothing.
For the elephant I would like to see at least +10 range (80) to give it a bit more of an edge over the ISU152.
The Pak43 is in dire need of more range. 80 range on this unit is terrible. The idea of this unit is that you place it in a way that it can cover 2 VPs. If it can't do that, it's useless. Range back to 100 ASAP.
ISU152 can stay at 70 range. No need for buffs.
The Elephant is useless. For roughly the same price as an elephant -
- OKW gets the jagdtiger, which has more range, more splash, and can shoot through buildings/obstacles.
- Soviets get the ISU152, which can deal with both infantry and tanks, though the elephant has better AT.
- USF get nothing.
For the elephant I would like to see at least +10 range (80) to give it a bit more of an edge over the ISU152.
The Pak43 is in dire need of more range. 80 range on this unit is terrible. The idea of this unit is that you place it in a way that it can cover 2 VPs. If it can't do that, it's useless. Range back to 100 ASAP.
ISU152 can stay at 70 range. No need for buffs.
11 Jul 2014, 12:32 PM
#12
Posts: 577
No. Having those heavy tank destroyers / ATGs outrange tanks massively created a really bad gameplay that was in the end only centered around them. This is dull and means that you needed to equip either a commander with such a unit or one that countered it.
I agree that the Elefant is too weak, but increasing the range back is a kneejerk reaction and would most likely overbuff the unit. I'd rather have it gain a smaller price, fire faster or rotate faster. Alternatively put a price point (30 munition?) on the sight-toggle, but give it a bit more range in that mode. Something like that could also work if all other changes would make it weird. Yet it certainly should not baseline outrange the other stuff.
Looking at the AoE profile of the ISU-152 I guess it will be nerfed soon as it was nerfed, but not in the way described in the changelog.
I agree that the Elefant is too weak, but increasing the range back is a kneejerk reaction and would most likely overbuff the unit. I'd rather have it gain a smaller price, fire faster or rotate faster. Alternatively put a price point (30 munition?) on the sight-toggle, but give it a bit more range in that mode. Something like that could also work if all other changes would make it weird. Yet it certainly should not baseline outrange the other stuff.
Looking at the AoE profile of the ISU-152 I guess it will be nerfed soon as it was nerfed, but not in the way described in the changelog.
11 Jul 2014, 12:38 PM
#13
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
No. Having those heavy tank destroyers / ATGs outrange tanks massively created a really bad gameplay that was in the end only centered around them. This is dull and means that you needed to equip either a commander with such a unit or one that countered it.
That might be so, but the range change has made the already rare elephant extinct in 1v1. The Pak43 provided a nice alternative way of playing and is now also useless in 1v1 as it can't cover 2 VPs properly. The amount of viable commanders 1v1 has been reduced for no reason. I used to roll a lot with Festung armor and Joint Operation commanders because of the boring Tiger-centered metagame, but using those commanders now is just shooting yourself in the foot.
11 Jul 2014, 12:41 PM
#14
Posts: 978
YES!
Used the Elefant twice in the latest patch. With scope it can see further than it can shoot. If you order it to attack a target at max view range it will move forward again and lose the sight (as scopes only work static). Stupid as hell. Oh and both times the Elefant was usless, because it couldn´t get off enough shots. 70 range is a joke on this giant pillbox. The ISU at least can wipe squads. But all the Soviet only fags can jerk off on this now: Elefant = useless, the ISU remains the same - it never needed the 100 range.
And the Pak43 is a fucking joke. You can´t move it and you can only lock down an area 20 range longer than a Pak40, which for a static gun is nothing. A moving Pak40 can lock down much more. BRILLIANT!
Used the Elefant twice in the latest patch. With scope it can see further than it can shoot. If you order it to attack a target at max view range it will move forward again and lose the sight (as scopes only work static). Stupid as hell. Oh and both times the Elefant was usless, because it couldn´t get off enough shots. 70 range is a joke on this giant pillbox. The ISU at least can wipe squads. But all the Soviet only fags can jerk off on this now: Elefant = useless, the ISU remains the same - it never needed the 100 range.
And the Pak43 is a fucking joke. You can´t move it and you can only lock down an area 20 range longer than a Pak40, which for a static gun is nothing. A moving Pak40 can lock down much more. BRILLIANT!
11 Jul 2014, 12:42 PM
#15
Posts: 85
For the immobile pak43 its a huge nerf. Probably makes the area it can hit now less than half of what it was before. But they lowered the pop cost a lot. If they buffed it it could be build time.
11 Jul 2014, 12:50 PM
#16
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
The funny thing was that mobile range 100 units were not nearly as huge a problem before the ISU buff, except maybe in certain limited situations (team games, large open spaces - steppes come to mind). So we have here a series of cascading changes made explicitly because a single unit was overbuffed.
My other gripes
- The most used ISU and Elefant doctrines also come with bombing runs / Stuka strikes, which directly negates the howitzers (which are a good soft counter for the armoured long range units).
- ISUs have focus sight, Elefant has spotting scopes (in the only doctrine with Ele worth getting ), which means these units can spot for themselves.
If this was not the case (I am aware doctrines and abilities are locked in and will never change, but still), these units would need combined arms to function properly, be it range 100 or 70. The problem would still exist in team games, but it would be less pronounced.
My other gripes
- The most used ISU and Elefant doctrines also come with bombing runs / Stuka strikes, which directly negates the howitzers (which are a good soft counter for the armoured long range units).
- ISUs have focus sight, Elefant has spotting scopes (in the only doctrine with Ele worth getting ), which means these units can spot for themselves.
If this was not the case (I am aware doctrines and abilities are locked in and will never change, but still), these units would need combined arms to function properly, be it range 100 or 70. The problem would still exist in team games, but it would be less pronounced.
11 Jul 2014, 12:51 PM
#17
Posts: 51
pak 43 needs a range increase it needs to be rotated manually and is immobile, its useless now and two pak 40s are a better option than one immobile gun
11 Jul 2014, 13:27 PM
#18
Posts: 627
Used the Elefant twice in the latest patch. With scope it can see further than it can shoot.
This was always true
And the Pak43 is a fucking joke. You can´t move it and you can only lock down an area 20 range longer than a Pak40, which for a static gun is nothing. A moving Pak40 can lock down much more. BRILLIANT!
PaK 40 are also easier to decrew, do half the damage, and can't shoot through all intervening terrain allowing you to slap the gun down outside your base on maps like crossing in the woods.
Buffing them further is needless. They both preform excellently at what they do, but are niche units. Making them better breaks them in the areas they're meant for in an attempt to force them to be useful in every game.
11 Jul 2014, 13:30 PM
#19
Posts: 1701
I swear I havent seen a single Elefant in WFA, it is already extinct lol, only 10 range advantage over SU85 and its expensive as hell, what a joke XD
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
11 Jul 2014, 13:31 PM
#20
Posts: 155
nope
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