Counters for Obersoldaten?

Im at a loss with these ubermensch. I have no idea how to counter their instant kills on squads. I lost 2 vet 3 rifle squads in about 4 seconds against a vet 0 Ober squad. The lack of defensive bonuses on retreat is what killed them I think, but still going from full life to 0 life in a matter of seconds in retreat is something I can't go against.

Ive tried getting that mobile light arty the US forces get, but it doesn't have the damage output vs vehicles and takes precious resources away from armor/at you need to counter German armor.

Arty (field arty: Priest, 75mm support gun) doesn't work very well because if it misses, which its prone to do, the player can move his Obersoldaten away before the second shell lands.

Then theres the Lt + Rifles with Bar spam, which isn't cost effective as far as I can tell because you lose more than the obersoldaten and they have a really high chance of living when they retreat.

So... viable tactic?

OK first off the only way that 1 ubermensch squad can kill 2 vet 3 rifle squads is if you were to run them both squads up to the ubermensch in negative cover. Even then its a little hard to believe that BOTH squads would be killed in less then 5-10 seconds. Maybe this was the case if both the Rifle squads were already injured, then i can imagine that they could die that quickly. (there is a reason why healing with the ambulance is just as important as reinforcing)

also we need to know if his squad was upgrade with the StG44's?

but keep in mind that the squad costs 400mp to build and the cost (I think) 45mp to reinforce? so even killing 1 or 2 as long as your losses is less then 3-4 is almost a fair trade especially since by the time they come out the OKW player will be really strapped for resources.

The easy answer to this is simple. use vehicles to counter. the M20 Utility Car, M15A1 AA Half-track, M5A1 Stuart, are all excellent at killing infantry and much like the Panzer Grens (before they upgrade to shreks) i don't think they have any AT weapons to defend themselves.

all you have is infantry they you first have to make sure you are using cover any time you engage them. If you can use abilities like grinades (if you can get close enough) suppressing fire, and if you have upgraded to Brownings defensive stance. If you dont have the commander that gives you brownings use the tier 2 M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team. if you went with the airborne commander use Paratroopers, who are slightly cheaper and can put out as much or more damage if upgraded with their LMG's

The BAR is an ok upgrade only if you dont have access to the Bowning.


here is how I would handle that same situation.

1. my 2 squads (each equipped with browning's) comes across the ubermensch squad.
2. i immediately move them to cover or fall back if no cover is available. (mind you i didn't say retreat, just fall back to some cover)
3. assuming i was able to find cover I would throw grenades if they were in range.
4. regardless if i could throw a grenade or not i would eventually move one squad back out of range while the other holds ground and covers. with the falling back squad I would find cover and assume defensive stance
5. then i would take the squad that is holding ground and either fall back to the squad in defensive stance or just retreat to save the squad.
6 if the ubermensch keep advancing they will get into range of the squad in defensive stance and be suppressed.

note: this only works as long as there aren't other units supporting the ubermensch.

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  JerryTube

  Pathfinders effective counter

  by: CURBER map: Kholodny Ferma Winter

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The pathfinders work pretty well thanks to their long range and critical hit chance.

OK first off the only way that 1 ubermensch squad can kill 2 vet 3 rifle squads is if you were to run them both squads up to the ubermensch in negative cover. Even then its a little hard to believe that BOTH squads would be killed in less then 5-10 seconds. Maybe this was the case if both the Rifle squads were already injured, then i can imagine that they could die that quickly. (there is a reason why healing with the ambulance is just as important as reinforcing)

also we need to know if his squad was upgrade with the StG44's?

but keep in mind that the squad costs 400mp to build and the cost (I think) 45mp to reinforce? so even killing 1 or 2 as long as your losses is less then 3-4 is almost a fair trade especially since by the time they come out the OKW player will be really strapped for resources.

The easy answer to this is simple. use vehicles to counter. the M20 Utility Car, M15A1 AA Half-track, M5A1 Stuart, are all excellent at killing infantry and much like the Panzer Grens (before they upgrade to shreks) i don't think they have any AT weapons to defend themselves.

all you have is infantry they you first have to make sure you are using cover any time you engage them. If you can use abilities like grinades (if you can get close enough) suppressing fire, and if you have upgraded to Brownings defensive stance. If you dont have the commander that gives you brownings use the tier 2 M2HB .50 cal Machine Gun Team. if you went with the airborne commander use Paratroopers, who are slightly cheaper and can put out as much or more damage if upgraded with their LMG's

The BAR is an ok upgrade only if you dont have access to the Bowning.


here is how I would handle that same situation.

1. my 2 squads (each equipped with browning's) comes across the ubermensch squad.
2. i immediately move them to cover or fall back if no cover is available. (mind you i didn't say retreat, just fall back to some cover)
3. assuming i was able to find cover I would throw grenades if they were in range.
4. regardless if i could throw a grenade or not i would eventually move one squad back out of range while the other holds ground and covers. with the falling back squad I would find cover and assume defensive stance
5. then i would take the squad that is holding ground and either fall back to the squad in defensive stance or just retreat to save the squad.
6 if the ubermensch keep advancing they will get into range of the squad in defensive stance and be suppressed.

note: this only works as long as there aren't other units supporting the ubermensch.

I have the exact problem without the losing squads, problem I have is continually giving up the map or being cut off, I cant push OKW back so I don't have the resources to get vehicles before them, or I just slowly lose to VP count down, if I change the direction of the attack he just shifts his flak track across to the area, at best I have an AT gun and maybe a single bazooka at that point but have very little map control, but that rarely manages to deal with the flak track as they have superior support infantry, from the first engagement especially now rear echelon have no real use I am being pushed back, this never really stops for the rest of the game.

this is 1v1 auto only, I play no other mode.

I understand what you are saying about the m1919 but unfortunately its a doctrinal thing. What are people supposed to do when they go airborne or armor? I still am having a hard time fighting these guys with just bars. My rifles get destroyed without much of a fight back. I can't sit defensive the whole game and it's when I try to push even a little I get destroyed.

I have found one effective strat against heavy Obersoldaten play that works. Infantry Company with double LMG rifleman squads in defensive stance, as they suppress very fast. You have to anticipate your opponents move and setup ahead of time, or be lightning quick and click defensive stance the moment you see the enemy, otherwise they're shit out of luck.

With the other commanders? Beats me. Everyone says "Vehicles vehicles vehicles" but between shrek squads, a raketenwerfer, and even 1 tank or puma, and you can't threaten the blob as well as you need.

They have to stop moving to shoot.
They have no anti-vehicle
They cost 50 mp to reinforce, so snipers will be effective bleed.
Their effectiveness is neutered by smoke grenades.
Artillery gibs them just like any other infantry.



I think people don't realize that any infantry unit coming out in t4 has to be very potent at what it does, or else it will be useless against veteran infantry from earlier in the game.

I don't play team games often though, so maybe it's more of an issue when people blob them or something. (But then you have twice as much arty, so play better) I haven't found them to be overwhelming in 1v1.

They have to stop moving to shoot.
They have no anti-vehicle
They cost 50 mp to reinforce, so snipers will be effective bleed.
Their effectiveness is neutered by smoke grenades.
Artillery gibs them just like any other infantry.



I think people don't realize that any infantry unit coming out in t4 has to be very potent at what it does, or else it will be useless against veteran infantry from earlier in the game.

I don't play team games often though, so maybe it's more of an issue when people blob them or something. (But then you have twice as much arty, so play better) I haven't found them to be overwhelming in 1v1.

First of all the mg34 can fire on the move, albeit at a less effective rate of fire, they have armor (I honestly don't know why, thick skin?) and the US doesnt have access to snipers, and the lack of AT means nothing when they are being escorted by 1-2 shreck volksgrenadiers. Arty does seem to be the best bet with countering the obers, and I usually always build an M8 Scott after my Jackson vs the OKW.

M8 Scott and pray that it hits a few times.

I've heard that the howitzer we get from t3 (the captains building if I recall), is a 'poor mans' counter to it as direct hits are essentially one or two man kills.

Use 50 cal, their DPS is not unbearable when they are suppressed

I use a sherman, HE rounds can kill 3-4 of them in one shot now, even at long range.

Hell even the US Halftrack is really useful if you've got a spare one lying around. I've played against some players who try to rush for obersoldaten who've neglected their AT abilities, and shredded their obers with my HT and machine guns.

If you went captain instead of lieutenant, fear not if you've gone Airborne as you can drop machine guns to be manned by your troops