The Balance List

Mostly a Nerf America Thread. These are all of the most pressing balance issues in 1v1.

Nerf American Halftrack - it's damage is way too good. Destroys infantry and vehicles alike and comes out far too early in T1.
- Swap it's position with the pak howitzer in t2.
- Severely reduce it's Anti Tank capabilities.

American Scout Car AT mines do too much damage - they 1 shot pumas.

Volley fire is broken - make it at least vet 1 ability. Or make it so they can't pinn infinite squads.

In my opinion, American riflemen are too good. They dominate early game with their insane damage on a 5 man squad. They defeat all Volks, Grens, and generally Sturmpios (unless the American player is considerably foolish and rounds a true sight blocker into them), ensuring them early game dominance. And by the time the Germans finally have enough combined arms to deal with riflemen, they get hammered hard by a halftrack or even a stuart.
- I'm not sure what should be done with them - I think a damage decrease at long range should be in order, but I'm not sure what Relic was going for with their design. Are they suppose to wreck everything they see? Then increase their build time or something to reduce their early game presence.

I think the Sherman tank could use a buff (slight HP increase or armor pen or damage buff). The American early game dominance overshadows this generally underwhelming unit. It struggles to even deal with a Panzer IV; never mind Panthers, JagdPanzers, or other heavy tanks. If American players didn't win in 10 minutes, I think more people would see this.





Decrease the cost of Volks' panzerschreck (90 muni for one? They already get 0 munitions, this is just cruel). I suggest 75 or 80.



The Soviets (and Germans to a lesser extent) have clear roles for each tier - not this 1 tier covers and counters anything crap the Americans have.

Why are people hating on Riflemen so much? They literally melt to obersoldaten, regardless of vet, yet people still call for nerfs.

Why are people hating on Riflemen so much? They literally melt to obersoldaten, regardless of vet, yet people still call for nerfs.

Not a good example. When are riflemen comming into the battle and when are Obers comming? If you want to make a point, you should relay on other arguments.

Why are people hating on Riflemen so much? They literally melt to obersoldaten, regardless of vet, yet people still call for nerfs.

Yes, Obersoldaten need a nerf too. Just because OKW has ridiculous infantry doesn't mean that riflemen are balanced. Plus riflemen being so dominating early game leads to far bigger balance problems in 1vs1 than the obersoldaten purely because of when they come onto the field.

Problem with USA is that it's very much a one trick faction right now. If/when the AA HT rush gets fixed, volley fire gets changed to single target and riflemen (&lieutenant) are made to perform more to cost, I'm not sure how exactly USA is supposed to actually win after the first few engagements where they can outnumber their opponent easily. Their AT gun is bad, the infantry howitzer is bad, their tanks are bad, they have no snipers (pathfinders really don't count), they have no non-doctrinal mines on infantry. Their light vehicles are pretty good (Stuart, M8H, M20), but those aren't going to win games in the long run especially when their atgun can't realistically hold off tanks due to the bad penetration on it.

On the side not the Ami's at late game is far to weak with the jackson and the 57 at gun units having not enough penetration to deal with german heavies.

The Jackson Tank destroyer is incredible powerful tank. With the range almost equal to and ISU and powerful damage, it can really handle German armor quite well with good positioning (obviously it's HP is low, so it's a poor frontline unit).

I just played a game without the use of t1 and due to several costly early game mistakes had to drag the game into late game, where I sued Jacksons, Paratroopers, Stuart, and AT gun to good effect.
- I can upload the replay if you'd like.

I don't think the other American units are bad (t2/t3 units), just overshadowed by the massive over performance of American T0 and T1.

I think after nerfing those American units they should receive a slight late game buff either or both through Sherman buff and help with manpower shortages (less Riflemen upkeep or something).

And I'd be hesitant to nerf the Obersoldaten. While they have very powerful dps, they basically only do one thing and that's kill infantry. OKW have no other options for infantry to effectively handle other infantry (no MG that isn't doctrinal, Panzerfussiliers also doctrinal)and Volks won't ever cut it as they currently stand. Obersoldaten are quite easily handled with appropriate counters (MG teams, snipers, Light tanks) and bleed heavily. Is their damage too good? Perhaps, but for such a specialized unit it should be good...

On the side not the Ami's at late game is far to weak with the jackson and the 57 at gun units having not enough penetration to deal with german heavies.

Not true. Jacksons can put the hurt on Panthers/Tigers and the AT gun has an ability to basically guarantee penetration... I can upload a replay to show you this (Jackson's/AT gun killing panthers).

Not true. Jacksons can put the hurt on Panthers/Tigers and the AT gun has an ability to basically guarantee penetration... I can upload a replay to show you this (Jackson's/AT gun killing panthers).

interesting i have heard a lot of complaining about the AT capabilities of the ami's and every time i managed to get a tiger or KT out it was game over for the ami however you many have a point that the player is the problem as most player let their m10/jackson be destroyed.

The issue is that the OKW need to play perfectly in the start of the game.That means losing more that two units and the OKW player will get overrun buy allie inft.

The 2/3 resources for OKW should go as well.

Vindicare is right volley fire is broken- Make the ability a vet 1 or 2 ability.

Obersoldaten-Does not need a nerf it is fine as is it can be countered easily.when Obersoldaten hit the field allies already have a t-34s or shermans.

The Jackson in my opinion is fine. For the amount of fuel it costs, unless the American player is in a position in which he has the entire map HE is unlikely to get another piece of armour for a good 5 - 10 minutes.

In this time if the OKW knows that there is a Jackson around on the field then he should be punished if he plays aggressively with his armour, once there is a Jackson on the field all OKW armour should be aware and in defensive positions backed up by a Rakatenwerfer and/or Volks with a Panzer shrek.

So many times I have seen a Panther blindly rush forward to try and deal with a Jackson, only to be destroyed in 3 -4 shots, as it should be. Come on guys, the Jackson has a 90mm anti-tank gun, the clue is in the name.

Yes, Obersoldaten need a nerf too. Just because OKW has ridiculous infantry doesn't mean that riflemen are balanced. Plus riflemen being so dominating early game leads to far bigger balance problems in 1vs1 than the obersoldaten purely because of when they come onto the field.

You can't speak about Obersoldaten nerf without a cost decrease for this unit and without buffing volks a little or nerfing riflemen a little.

Or, everything left as it is now.

Dunno, is just me, or this time Relic did kind a good job related to infantry balance?!

Problem with USA is that it's very much a one trick faction right now. If/when the AA HT rush gets fixed, volley fire gets changed to single target and riflemen (&lieutenant) are made to perform more to cost, I'm not sure how exactly USA is supposed to actually win after the first few engagements where they can outnumber their opponent easily. Their AT gun is bad, the infantry howitzer is bad, their tanks are bad, they have no snipers (pathfinders really don't count), they have no non-doctrinal mines on infantry. Their light vehicles are pretty good (Stuart, M8H, M20), but those aren't going to win games in the long run especially when their atgun can't realistically hold off tanks due to the bad penetration on it.

Just wanted to +1 this.

If and when the AA HT rush and volley fire get fixed, the rest will fall like a stack of cards without some late-game buffs. These two are the pillars of the current American superiority, and I would argue that riflemen aren't even a problem once sturmpios can roam freely without fear of suppression.

The game has already been in such a state, back in alpha.

What about the OKW Flak Half-track, the time when he arrive are balanced ?

OKW flak halftrack is much weaker then its american counterpart and has a long setup time. I have no idea why people hate on the american at gun, it has the best range of any at gun and it has AP rounds. What more could you want?

You guys will hate me for this, but if you give Rear Echelon troops a bazooka and use volley fire on a tank, its gg for that tank, machine gun zooks.

I have no idea why people hate on the american at gun, it has the best range of any at gun and it has AP rounds. What more could you want?

Well I've only seen a couple of the at guns from actually decent players, and they have not posed a problem for PIVs once. The basic issue here is that as they have a ~50% chance to penetrate vet2 PIV front on the first long range shot whenever not running the AP ability, you often end up doing no damage before you're flanked especially with the USA's lack of vehicle snaring. The 4-man crew is pretty easy to clear too.

The high penetration, slower firing approach of the other AT-guns works better in the realities of COH2 than the fast fire, low penetration of the 57mm. Much easier to ground target, much higher alpha strike on the "guaranteed" first shot.