I am feeling that Ostheers are OP

Because Germans are stronger than Soviets. I am not talking about 2v2 experience as this is unique but rest of modes slightly favours Germans. They're harder to play though.

To be fair, he did say he's just talking about his feelings, and not necessarily about facts. That's a lot better than 95% of the balance posts here, so let's cut him some slack.

That said, the problem is with Motomoto, not the game.

Game changed a lot. If anything i think Soviets has more "strats (abusive ones )" than anything. Also the new explosive profile benefits them hugely (mines).

Yes, Ostheer are hilariously OP, even if most of the posters here will deny that, probably because of severe bias.

The fact is that unless you play significantly better as soviet than your opponent, the OH will always win and the main reason for that is that you cannot trade efficiently 1:1 against the Ostheer.

As soon as you enter an engagement you are behind, regardless of the outcome of the engagement. If you don't totally crush his units, Ostheer will pull ahead in the long run.

I can't count the games anymore, where I totally outplayed my opponent in the early game, killing several squads, maintaining control of 2/3 of the map and he just proceeds parking tigers in my base like they cost nothing. And this is extremely frustrating, because everytime I think we have something like a "good game" going on here, something unrealistic comes waltzing out of the FoW and I am left wondering if all the 5/10/15 minutes before this moment even mattered at all regarding the outcome of this game.

Playing Ostheer is just n+1'ing your opponent.

And that is exactly the problem. German units cost nothing. Okay, that's an exaggeration. They do not cost enough for what they can do compared to what the costs efficency of soviet units. When the german loses a model, it simply does not hurt enough. The re-inforce costs on all german infantry is too low.

The next issue is the flexibility and scalability of both german armor and infantry throughout the game. All german units scale incredibly good, whereas the soviet can only produce cannon fodder the longer the game lasts. Which would probably be OK, if soviet units would cost less. Anyway...

How to fix that? No idea. You can't realistically up reinforcement costs, 'cause it would kill the OH early game. What you'd really need is variable reinforcement costs, the longer the game lasts, or the more units the OH loses, the higher the reinforcement costs. (Hey, that's would be totally historically accurate, amirite?)

But these are far from small balance changes, that require a major rework, basically a new game. Imo the ship has sailed on vanilla CoH2 a long time ago. And while you wait and hope the expansion delivers a more sensible game, you can ponder what this game would be like if Ostheer units cost money.

The factions hardly need a major balance rework. Some changes, but not super drastic.

I haven't played soccer for years. Anyhow, I was goalkeeper and I forgot how damn big the goal is. It's just this huge *void* with a net draped off the back of it.

Man how on earth am I meant to stop people kicking a ball into it? They say I need to do this jumping and blocking stuff but when I tried it didn't work.

The ball is OP. Anybody have any thoughts?

@Raw: Soviet can easily trade effectively with ostheer. Sniper and M3 both kill models without losing any MP at all, and if you micro your conscripts well you can frequently kill 1 model for every 1.5 models you lose. You should post replays if you are struggling to get AT out with 2/3 of the map in your favor.

Yes, Ostheer are hilariously OP, even if most of the posters here will deny that, probably because of severe bias.

The fact is that unless you play significantly better as soviet than your opponent, the OH will always win and the main reason for that is that you cannot trade efficiently 1:1 against the Ostheer.

Shit just got real, lol!

At least you're brutally honest about it. I'm wondering who's right.

I tried engaging Cata with a few questions, he seems to think Soviets are the strongest. He uses M3s to massively out-micro his opponents, but also thinks that the Maxim can do the stuff.

I am pretty sure he thinks differently than you or I, though; if it wins games, spam the cheese. If you don't do cheesy strats (I think M3s are ridiculous and breaks the "immersion" or whatever, but then again, I'm super casual), OH just might be stronger while everyone rages over the imba Soviets.

I think your problem here is 4v4. I find there is much more blobbing and less tactics involed in 4v4. I personaly don't like 4v4. Inparticular with random players you have no idea what tactics/build order they use so cant work well as a team. If the opposing team is an actual team they will be talking to each other and will know what they are each going to build and therefore gain an advantage.
I also think you should play both factions as this goves you an idea of what the opossing units are good for and what can easily kill them. Then use these tactics/units when playing your perfered faction.

Yes, Ostheer are hilariously OP, even if most of the posters here will deny that, probably because of severe bias.

The fact is that unless you play significantly better as soviet than your opponent, the OH will always win and the main reason for that is that you cannot trade efficiently 1:1 against the Ostheer.

As soon as you enter an engagement you are behind, regardless of the outcome of the engagement. If you don't totally crush his units, Ostheer will pull ahead in the long run.

I can't count the games anymore, where I totally outplayed my opponent in the early game, killing several squads, maintaining control of 2/3 of the map and he just proceeds parking tigers in my base like they cost nothing. And this is extremely frustrating, because everytime I think we have something like a "good game" going on here, something unrealistic comes waltzing out of the FoW and I am left wondering if all the 5/10/15 minutes before this moment even mattered at all regarding the outcome of this game.

Playing Ostheer is just n+1'ing your opponent.

And that is exactly the problem. German units cost nothing. Okay, that's an exaggeration. They do not cost enough for what they can do compared to what the costs efficency of soviet units. When the german loses a model, it simply does not hurt enough. The re-inforce costs on all german infantry is too low.

The next issue is the flexibility and scalability of both german armor and infantry throughout the game. All german units scale incredibly good, whereas the soviet can only produce cannon fodder the longer the game lasts. Which would probably be OK, if soviet units would cost less. Anyway...

How to fix that? No idea. You can't realistically up reinforcement costs, 'cause it would kill the OH early game. What you'd really need is variable reinforcement costs, the longer the game lasts, or the more units the OH loses, the higher the reinforcement costs. (Hey, that's would be totally historically accurate, amirite?)

But these are far from small balance changes, that require a major rework, basically a new game. Imo the ship has sailed on vanilla CoH2 a long time ago. And while you wait and hope the expansion delivers a more sensible game, you can ponder what this game would be like if Ostheer units cost money.

Looked at your sig, wondered how anyone can take you seriously.

Totally unrelated picture in this totally weird topic.

Looked at your sig, wondered how anyone can take you seriously.

wait a minute ................................... ok i'm ready go

I think your problem here is 4v4.

I don't play 2v2+ and I play both factions.

Sniper and M3 both kill models without losing any MP at all

Yes, I can click attack move ahead of a retreating grenadier as well.

Looked at your sig, wondered how anyone can take you seriously.

That is because my signature is serious business.

I tried engaging Cata with a few questions, he seems to think Soviets are the strongest. He uses M3s to massively out-micro his opponents, but also thinks that the Maxim can do the stuff.

Maxims do work if you ball them, and M3s of course massacre your opponent if you're a step ahead of them, but that's exactly the gimmicky gameplay the soviet faction is famous for. If your opponent plays on your level and knows how to mitigate your gimmicks the game turns into a slaughterfest and the Ostheer will emerge victorious due to more efficient trading in the midfield.

Raw, I was refering to the original post. Sorry about that

Adapt

Yes, Ostheer are hilariously OP, even if most of the posters here will deny that, probably because of severe bias.

The fact is that unless you play significantly better as soviet than your opponent, the OH will always win and the main reason for that is that you cannot trade efficiently 1:1 against the Ostheer.

As soon as you enter an engagement you are behind, regardless of the outcome of the engagement. If you don't totally crush his units, Ostheer will pull ahead in the long run.

I can't count the games anymore, where I totally outplayed my opponent in the early game, killing several squads, maintaining control of 2/3 of the map and he just proceeds parking tigers in my base like they cost nothing. And this is extremely frustrating, because everytime I think we have something like a "good game" going on here, something unrealistic comes waltzing out of the FoW and I am left wondering if all the 5/10/15 minutes before this moment even mattered at all regarding the outcome of this game.

Playing Ostheer is just n+1'ing your opponent.

And that is exactly the problem. German units cost nothing. Okay, that's an exaggeration. They do not cost enough for what they can do compared to what the costs efficency of soviet units. When the german loses a model, it simply does not hurt enough. The re-inforce costs on all german infantry is too low.

The next issue is the flexibility and scalability of both german armor and infantry throughout the game. All german units scale incredibly good, whereas the soviet can only produce cannon fodder the longer the game lasts. Which would probably be OK, if soviet units would cost less. Anyway...

How to fix that? No idea. You can't realistically up reinforcement costs, 'cause it would kill the OH early game. What you'd really need is variable reinforcement costs, the longer the game lasts, or the more units the OH loses, the higher the reinforcement costs. (Hey, that's would be totally historically accurate, amirite?)

But these are far from small balance changes, that require a major rework, basically a new game. Imo the ship has sailed on vanilla CoH2 a long time ago. And while you wait and hope the expansion delivers a more sensible game, you can ponder what this game would be like if Ostheer units cost money.

good boy.

I'll say it once more raw, if you can't trade effectively with cons vs grens you might not be microing your conscripts well and you should some replays and get some advice. If you aren't using m3 or snipers, are you going molotovs?

cons vs grens

that isn't even what i was talking about

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want this community to grow, it's not by bashing people on the forums. If you are so sure that this guy is trolling it's probably because you have recognized yourself in his post... Even if he is really trolling, your best course of action is to let the thread die.

that isn't even what i was talking about

Then what are you talking about?