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russian armor

Defensive Doctrine—tweaks

28 May 2014, 20:23 PM
#1
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

The defensive doctrines offer a unique ability to sculpt the battle field with obstacles that has a lot of strategic potential, but these commanders see very little play and tank traps have had virtually no role in the metagame. Little use of the soviet version is understandable, as it lacks off-map call-ins or late game units/abilities, and the units that are available (dshk, 120mm mortar, 45mm at gun) don't seem to offer additional utility over regular T2 units. The german defensive doctrine is viable, but the unique aspects of it (tank traps and trenches) haven't proven to be attractive to players. I've been using them quite a lot lately (in 4v4 team games) and think a few minor changes could make these staples of WW2 more usable in Coh2.

-move tank traps to 0 cp
-move trenches to 0 or 1 cp
-reduce build time of tank traps
-make weapons decrewed in trenches recoverable

Tank traps desperately need this boost. If tank traps aren't deployed in a thorough manner, they're as good as useless. Making enough to be useful obviously requires time and space to build them safely, but they also cost resources in the form of lost opportunity by having your pioneers not doing other tasks. Securing the space to build them is up to the players, but the time and resources are largely affected by design. I really can't fathom why these are at 2 CP and not 0 CP, as though using your pioneers to build instead of fight or capture before 2 CP would be "imbalanced". Also, considering tanks can destroy traps with their main gun, it should be such a burden to make them.
28 May 2014, 20:54 PM
#2
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

Do you still lose the entire squad when a trench dies with a squad in it?
The issue with tank traps is that you need a lot of them placed to have any effect. And you mostly dotn have the time for that to place them all. They also die in a couple of shots.
28 May 2014, 21:00 PM
#3
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

As far as I know, yes, infantry inside of trenches die when it is destroyed. This is an obvious issue with trenches. Trenches should provide good protection vs tanks, but at the moment they are death traps due to low trench HP.
28 May 2014, 21:08 PM
#4
avatar of Unshavenbackman

Posts: 680

This game sure has a lot of hidden potential. Would be nice if these commanders would be more viable.
28 May 2014, 21:16 PM
#5
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

I don't get it. After the alpha Relic said that they did not implement tank traps because errors in the vehicle pathing occured because of them.
Now they implement them in a commander.
So what is the actual reason that pioneers/engineers can't built them without a commander?
28 May 2014, 21:24 PM
#6
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

Squads don't die if the trench they're in is destroyed now, I'm assuming that decrewed weapons are still unrecoverable but I've avoided that situation so I can't confirm that there hasn't been a fix.

The way tank traps are spaced, light and medium vehicles can still path through them, albeit clumsily. You actually need to make 2 rows of traps to properly block something off. I don't know if this is intentional, but I always prefer a full block off rather so enemy tank movement is more predictable.
28 May 2014, 21:29 PM
#7
avatar of DocRockwell

Posts: 60

I don't get it. After the alpha Relic said that they did not implement tank traps because errors in the vehicle pathing occured because of them.
Now they implement them in a commander.
So what is the actual reason that pioneers/engineers can't built them without a commander?


Considering the poor vehicle pathing I think leaving them out was a reasonable choice. Putting them on 1 commander doesn't really affect that when no one uses them, ever. If it was a standard ability for engineers it might force them to spend more time working on pathing AI instead of DLC.
28 May 2014, 23:14 PM
#8
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

I'd say increase the health of the trench dramatically so it's harder to destroy, like a base building. It's not like a bunker where it has special properties (command, medic, denial) that you have to get rid of.

One molotov or satchel will force anyone inside to exit, so both of Soviet's core infantry unit can neutralize it in an attack. And you can steal it also the fact that once abandoned, you can hop in it as well.
29 May 2014, 02:10 AM
#9
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

what if both defensive doctrine loses one useless(relative) ability and gain passive ability which enables CE/Pio to build tank traps, mines(maybe), barbed wires, and bunkers faster.
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