Current balance for both faction

hmm..has anyone battled 2v2 where soviets do Sniper > Guards spam > KV2 / ISU152 spam on that loved map called Semosiky? Literally, I had 0 infantry at late game, not kidding lol.

Squad wipes seems balanced.

Sniper Sniper Con Con AT nades CE > Mines everywhere > Repair Stations > T34spam into KV2
Con > maxims > Guards > Zis > ISU 152

Without Elephant or Pak43 you are fucked.
Don´t go heavy gren (not more than 2 per player), play defensive with MGs, get a mortar, get a sniper if you can micro it.
You can try MHT into Tigers. MHT will clear snipers/maxim/Zis with flame barrage. It´s more effective than going T4 and Panzerwerfer.
The other go P4 early (no fuel used on T2) cause you are probably gonna see a 10-12 minute T34. If you rely just in paks it´s a bit risky.

Sniper Sniper Con Con AT nades CE > Mines everywhere > Repair Stations > T34spam into KV2
Con > maxims > Guards > Zis > ISU 152

Without Elephant or Pak43 you are fucked.
Don´t go heavy gren (not more than 2 per player), play defensive with MGs, get a mortar, get a sniper if you can micro it.
You can try MHT into Tigers. MHT will clear snipers/maxim/Zis with flame barrage. It´s more effective than going T4 and Panzerwerfer.
The other go P4 early (no fuel used on T2) cause you are probably gonna see a 10-12 minute T34. If you rely just in paks it´s a bit risky.

MG42 vs double snipers, are you sure of that? mg gunners are just sitting ducks for double snipers, all german infantry is sitting ducks. Scout car? No problem, guards or hoorah + AT nade. MG42 to stop the hooraing conns or guards? I already told he has double snipers to make clear no mgs are sitting around there. The only viable counter I see is the mortar halftrack but...... he will have ISU and I will not have Elefant to fight back.

Late game is a joke KV2 + ISU

MG42 vs double snipers, are you sure of that? mg gunners are just sitting ducks for double snipers, all german infantry is sitting ducks. Scout car? No problem, guards or hoorah + AT nade. MG42 to stop the hooraing conns or guards? I already told he has double snipers to make clear no mgs are sitting around there. The only viable counter I see is the mortar halftrack but...... he will have ISU and I will not have Elefant to fight back.

Late game is a joke KV2 + ISU

Ger sniper forces hold fire.
Mortar forces mistakes or movement of the snipers. While also bleeding. If you feel confortable use smoke and push grens.
MG stops Cons/Guards. You don´t have it on the front line. So you don´t get sniped. Once you force a retreat you are able to push forward with 222s. Double snipers? Double 222s. I´m sure i wont bleed anything against you. Guards takes time to aim, and with a reduce range and long aim time i can kit.

P1: a combination of 1/2 Pios, 1 MG, 2/3 Grens, 1 sniper, maybe a mortar, probably a HT. Delayed T2
P2: a combination of 1 Pio, 1 MG, 2 Grens, 1 Mortar, BP1, T2 > 222, Pio. Quick 4 T1 units into T2 AC

It´s easy to identify double sniper play since theres no "agressive" cap. Once you get your first sniped (probably at your 3rd unit built) just don´t engage them. Pull back (he either scouts with CE and/or caps with sniper) and help your partner. Set up some flank/ambush if he decides to switch sides also.
Don´t give XP to the Guard user (if it´s the sniper, it´s gonna be forced to float MP or get con/CE/cache since he won´t get Guards fast enough) if possible. That´s why you don´t engage snipers early unless you force a retreat/kill.
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Lategame: if you go MHT you can deal with the Zis. You either need Pak43/Elephant to keep at bay either KV2 or ISU2. Forget about your infantry since they are just mp sinks at this stage. KV2 is only useful while on "mortar" mode. So Stuka, push it quickly before it deals serious damage.

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On Moscow Outskirts/Rhzev winter i just like to go Puma spam (something different rather than Elephat/Pak43 + Tiger).

I will give german sniper a try, but as always, theory is there, but practice is different..

I will give german sniper a try, but as always, theory is there, but practice is different..

Planification is one thing, execution is another. Just saying what I do.

Its just I rely on to the soviet player to do an error? And what if he doesnt make any? Or lucky mortar shot... anyways I will use next time german sniper..

First shot from a mortar is lucky. Constant barrage through the game is less RNG dependant.

If he played "perfectly" then he either outplayed you. Skill. He can´t be everywhere with his snipers or support and theres times on which he/you must take some risks.

In my opinion this game is broken.Last patch just make 9/10 games to be elephant vs isu-152.. And early game?? Let me laugh 2 man sniper squad combined with guards german army can do nothing.. At least this is the game in my eyes and AGAIN this is my opinion!

Is more easy to play as soviet, 6 mans, better armor, put shocks into front to you su85 see all the map, fire bombs op, maxpin strong, sniper op, isu 152 op, kv8 op, m3 early spam op, instant double call in (T85), and many other things, and the mechanics of the game, favours a lot for the soviets...

Is more easy to play as soviet, 6 mans, better armor, put shocks into front to you su85 see all the map, fire bombs op, maxpin strong, sniper op, isu 152 op, kv8 op, m3 early spam op, instant double call in (T85), and many other things, and the mechanics of the game, favours a lot for the soviets...

For this post you will get shred to pieces by Katitof.

I said it myself many times. Soviets are easier to play and good for starting players. It was not always the case though.

Before the Elbe patch the Ostheer really was slightly better than the Soviets. But the Russians already had the advantage of their 6 men which made squadwipes almost impossible.
Now and then you have to face a giant Russian army as a German in mid/late because their squads won't die completely. You don't have to panic at all when retreating a squad with 3 or more men because they will get back to base in 95%. As a German retreating with 2 guys (also half of the full squad size) you can say goodbye comrades because they won't make it home in about half of the cases.

Relic and especially their balance dev peter are so afraid of hurting the precious feelings of russians and their wannabes here on the forums they made Soviets a cake walk to win

Relic and especially their balance dev peter are so afraid of hurting the precious feelings of russians and their wannabes here on the forums they made Soviets a cake walk to win

The campaign did paint the Soviets as saints in WW2 afterall.....

Relic and especially their balance dev peter are so afraid of hurting the precious feelings of russians and their wannabes here on the forums they made Soviets a cake walk to win

I'm not sure about that. But it does seem they were listening a bit too much to certain fanboys who don't even play the game and just post to get one faction op. they definitely are making some very dumb decisions. Their whole balance process is flawed. Nerfing one faction and buffing the other is idiocy that is for sure. Also they seem to not test commanders when they are released and obviously the people in beta don't play team games where heavies get called in and played, otherwise the isu would not be the way it is. I believe that the sov super mines are a victim of the huge changes made to the weapon profiles and also were not tested properly. But they have realized they designed the sovs to rely on stupid abilities and have thrown out ost and sovs to the garbage pile to design their latest factions and the p2w commanders that will follow.

I just want a patch which won´t swing the balance to one or another faction.

This means fixing mines and ISU/Elephant mostly.
Then we have things like PGs, Panthers, Callins cost effectiveness and Artillery in general. Specially static ones.

After this i think we can go into some more specific things.

the ENTIRE german army except for prob tigers elephants and grens are a pile of shit.

of course relic is not going to admit it since russians and their little whiner wanabes here will cry the moment they need skill to win.

the ENTIRE german army except for prob tigers elephants and grens are a pile of shit.

of course relic is not going to admit it since russians and their little whiner wanabes here will cry the moment they need skill to win.

Do you guys have anything to say other than derail the topic?
Please elaborate, I'm interested in hearing your actual thoughts and reasonings on the matter

Wow what a terrible thread. For those of you who are complaining about the current balance in favor of Soviet you are playing into their strengths as an army. Yes, ISU is unfair and Mines need to be toned down a bit but for the first time since release the Germans actually have to try to play. Prior to this was pure German dominance, and the sniper was the only way you could stay in the game.

the Ostheer army still has the edge in middle game and late game. Here is why:

Coming into the 8-12 minute time frame before the tanks roll out between T1 and T2 there are all the tools the Ostheer player needs to counter the Soviet player, which is in most cases more than the Soviet whom Generally to stay cost effective can only afford one tech route.

Grens still win most engagements vs cons and penals. The only way to loose to these is to be outnumbered, flanked, or your own blunder. If you simply cover hop your way to the points you can stop the second you see these close ranged units and kite when they get to medium range.

Grens still have access to the best weapon in the game being the mg42. It is finally fair, they no longer completely murder every thing at every range. G43s are still a fantastic upgrade, they are tied at .8 accuracy on the move making them perfect to kite and flank with.

Panzer grens needed a nerf after the March deployment. They simply killed everything and could charge at whatever they wanted to without regard for the new direction with the patch.

The panther is still the best tank in the game that is not a heavy and well worth its cost

P4 vs T34 combat is finally balanced

6 man vs 4 man is in asymmetric balance.

I do not understand what issue people have with the maxim. It is good, but So is the mg42.


Really I need spesifics from you all so I can prove to you that the game is really close to balanced. The past year has been clearly German favored so it is odd to me that there is so much flame in the direction of the Relic balance team favoring Soviets. Balance swings will happen and that does not mean one side is favored more.... Just like how defending a unit does not automatically make them a "fan Boy"

My only request is to make the unit "dots" more noticeable on the minimap. It would be great if we had the option to change our unit's color on the minimap so they stand out more prominently, especially during stressful situations. I can't count how many times I forgot about a squad for a minute or two, because their dot on the minimap blended in with the rest of my blue territory.