COMRADES! Do not build T3 or T4.

Stock Soviet Vehicles are a WASTE of manpower.
From the M3A1 to the SU85, soviet vehicles are simply just a waste of manpower. The tech buildings cost are simply out of sight. The resources used to gain and build soviet vehicles is just simply too high for their cost effectiveness. German units have an excessive proliferation of highly-effective AT weapons.

I’ve had games where I build 2-3 SU-85s and may be hold my own against his panthers, but then the panzer grenadiers w/ schrecks break through and blast them away because they have serious maneuverability issues. Or if he builds up a couple tanks and vet1 races past SU85 they will never turn around in time before getting destroyed.
All the other stock soviet vehicles are just garbage. I mean really they are just trash. M3A1 scout car? Gets obliterated by german scout car as soon as it hits the field. Not like it lasts that long against infantry anyway. You know that soviet scout car has 5.4 frontal armor?? Same as German scout car rear armor! And all that costs 10MP/5fuel more just because it hits the field 3 minutes sooner, which is a mute point anyway since grenadiers spawn with panzerfaust ability.
M5 is decent but come on, it never shoots planes down in time (if it shoots them down at all), before a recon plane gets to the rear to spot your arty piece so that an uncounterable bombardment wipes your expensive artillery out.
T34. Everyone knows it’s a joke. The ONLY reason to build it is for the benefit of ram. Even then, against a good german player who knows that ram has a large minimum range (so if you actually get up close to T34 your safe from ram) and is buggy in a lot of situations– not to mention blitz will out run ram. As a tank its awful. Any german AT type weapon has GUARANTEED penetration vs its frontal armor. It often misses tanks and infantry (although it sometimes randomly gibbs whole sqauds). Sure on paper if you get 4 or more out it is good, but then the mechanics/scale of the game start to work against you as chokepoints/pathing etc all get in your way.
T70. Great another “recon” vehicle. What soviet vehicles actually kill stuff? I mean really… Sure it’s good vs poorly managed infantry but it has a pretty short life expectancy on the battlefield. Any german T3 vehicle hits the field and T70 is done for, unless you have 4 of them… and then they will still be done for eventually.

Katyusha?? Miss much? Panzerwerfer fires ALL its rockets at the same time so they all hit. Katyusha fires a long barrage, which both leaves it exposed for a longer time and the rockets are just so easy to avoid only a noob gets squads wiped out from katyusha. They are better in pairs, but still…
SU85. The only thing it can do is attack tanks and bunkers. Its not even any good vs units garrisoned in a building. It turns slowly and moves slowly. Against stock P4 and Panther it will lose 1 on 1 nearly every time. Even in 2s and 3s it can be flanked, especially with abilities like blitz and smoke screen. These units have to be babied and protected with your whole army to be used effectively. And if an elephant hits the field? Forget about it. In a mere 2, sometimes 3 shots the elephant will wipe your SU85 out and you never even got close enough to shoot at it. Look it costs the same as a P4 and while it has better AT ability on paper, in practice because its lack of maneuverability it is a highly situational and specialized unit.

SU76. This is what must be the worst unit in game. Yadda Yadda the free light arillery barrage is good. Who cares. There are runners up, but aside from combat abilities it takes up a valuable slot in the T4 lineup that could’ve been filled by any number of heavy Russian fighting vehicles. Unit is trash and it makes T4 even more limited.

The last few games I played, I actually DID NOT even build T3 and T4 and actually performed better for it. I relied on Zis/conscript nades/ loads of mines for AT defense until I could call-in some semi decent tanks(KV1, T34/85,IS2). That means I had to wait until CP8-10 to even have access to decent vehicles. And even then, KV1 has good armor/health but a crappy gun and no offensive abilities, no MG turret upgrade, T34/85 has a decent gun (only 120pen though) but its frontal armor can still be penetrated by every AT weapon in the german arsenal. IS2 another decent tank, but its still barely capable of taking on a panther even though it cost a TON more.

Yeah life as a Comrade is a plight... But it offers glory... sometimes... We simply need the patch . I dare to hope...

I agree that call-in tanks are going to be the backbone of your armor as Soviets, but late game you will still generally need T3 or T4. As you said, IS2 needs mobile AT support, T34-85 needs artillery/AI support to counter PAKs and Shreks. But I agree that right now T3 or T4 alone cannot beat a german army, unless you have significantly more fuel than your opponent.

The only thing I worry about is kv8s and su 85s, So please no one build su 85s ever and I will always beat you.

I totally disagree on t3/4 being useless.

For one it allows u to get earlier essential soviet pressure on Germans long before call ins are available. For me this is worth it's own weight in fuel.

2nd, soviets units, like any army, work best when supporting each other. Don't just rely on only armoured vehicles to defend themselves.


A perfect example of this is using T2, guards and onto a quick T34 and M5. Used as combined arms in a semi defensive way, this can easy hold it's own against T3 Germans.. Long enough for you to throw up a fuel cache and call an ISU to then push them back.


Really sounds like you don't know how to apply and keep pressure on and or how to use units to support each other. t34 are very useful for holding in reserve near maxims and guards and ZiS, they quickly respond to any push from Germans. They are not specialist, but they defo do enough when supported correctly to repel and German assault.

Indeed, I never build T3 or T4.

Spam Guards into T-34/85 or IS-2 depending on doctrine works best.

For one it allows u to get earlier essential soviet pressure on Germans

Soviet T3/T4 is not capable of pressuring the OH.

The only thing I worry about is kv8s and su 85s, So please no one build su 85s ever and I will always beat you.

The only thing SU-85 are good at is blowing up badly played PzIV. If you stop relying on A-Move, Su-85 loose their horror.

Disagree. I find it risky NOT to build T3 or T4, and especially T4. Su-85 is the only decent vehicle that can take on Panthers and Tigers. It's not safe to stay and wait to have the CP number for a call-in (T34/85 call in is rather weak), you don't know what your enemy is using. If he uses an Opel blitz, you will soon see quick armor and the ZIS will not be able to stop it and you can't allways relay on mines lottery. Sometimes having the CP number for a call-in can cach you in a manpower shortage and at that game stage, seconds matter. The quickest call-in (if we think also at manpower + fuel costs) is the single T34/85 from Advanced Warfare Doc. Unfortunately, I missed that doctrine and I don't have it. So, while playing with soviets, I'm not necessarely a call-in fan.

Pfft. Real Soviet Comrades get Armoured Assault and then fight all the way with penals and Cons! Then crush fascists with heroic IS-2!

I agree. It's far better to stall and wait for call-ins. Often I'll have enough fuel for 2 IS-2s by the time I have CPs and MP for one. 3 IS-2s really gets thing moving! And they can take on German infantry (for once) without too many worries.

i go irregular in m3 with penals and 2 cons. later sniper and T3-> T34.

It has said before by relic that you have to choose between soviet T3 and T4. At the moment you cant even afford one of those.

I totally agree with SSHeinie. But it is totally a matter of opinion and personal play style.


What I love about the soviets is there is actually quite a variety of ways to play them and lots are very effective, just depending on personal style. What works with one person often does not for another. I think this is really good

Hanging on for CP can be tricky, MP can drain, or lack of 'impact' units can slow the cp count.

Building T3, helps you gain cp from building itself plus impact units.


And t3 works perfect as a half way point to calling an ISU, which is beastly. I wouldn't as much do T3 into is2.

I generally agree with the statements. I have made similar experiences when building t3 or t4. It just doesnt seem to pay off enough and i only build one of them if i really have got the upper hand.

Normally i aim for infantry supperiority so 4-5 cons, 1-2 shocks or guards and flamer uprgraded combat engies. To support my struggle against massed Grens i build some kind of inderect fire unit. For AT i build 2-3 ZIS guns, AT nades and tons of mines, which allows me to keep the German tanks on distance so i can gain map controll and bleed the german from ressources and more important VP's. If i need tanks i mostly relie on call ins such as IS-2 or T34-85s.

So my main aim is to keep the upper hand on mapcontroll early into mid game, by building up a strong AI army but only picking fights i can win. I dont hesitate to retreat 5-6 men squads if i know i wount win the engagement. I try to break his bakebone by wiping out as many german infantry units as possible to leave his tanks unprotected. And this is also the weakpoint cause if i dont wipe out enough infantry im in for a long game.

I think its one of the most reliable and low risk strats and works pritty good for my low skill gameplay.

Katties and Su85 are still useful, djeezes bunch of whiney girls here.
I'm a OH player, played 4 games as soviet yesterday and won them all. I'm not saying that it means your arguments are all invalid, but there are a lot of guys here that just whine because it's not as easy to win as before.

YES it's not balanced at the moment
YES it will change
STOP the 10000 topics about it, it won't change untill the patch comes.

They are not talking about balance, they are talking about the glaring design flaw with the soviet faction. Maybe there wouldn't be 1000 topics about it if relic wouldn't release patches that completely screw over one faction.

So take your cry baby attitude towards people who come to the forums looking to speak with others about the issues they are having with the bs patch that was released. How do you have a referee tag when you are a complete asshole the posters. It's a forum it's for people to post and comment.

4 wins against shitty players does not mean anything.

Dont build T3 or T4 and get run over by mortars, brumbar, and panzerwerfer? right......

@ kreatiir:

We're not disscussing if the game is balanced, much more wich strategies work the best atm. There are still some players who didnt quit sovs just because its a bit more challenging to get a win. And man saying things to others wich u would never say to them if they were in your face is just pathetic. Act like a grown up and just express your opinion without offending ppl.

@ ilGetUSomDay:

Mortars shouldn be that big issue cause u can build counter mortar out of t2 or the 120mm as a call in. Never had big problems fighting brummbär with AT guns, mines and nades. Only problem can be the panzerwerfer here u have to be creative and take risks to destroy it, otherwise your AT guns are in trouble.

Katties and Su85 are still useful, djeezes bunch of whiney girls here.
I'm a OH player, played 4 games as soviet yesterday and won them all. I'm not saying that it means your arguments are all invalid, but there are a lot of guys here that just whine because it's not as easy to win as before.

YES it's not balanced at the moment
YES it will change
STOP the 10000 topics about it, it won't change untill the patch comes.

Might wanna tone that attitude a bit down mate, there are other ways of expressing your opinion in a civilized way. You're on staff, lead by example
On topic : I'm pretty sure Relic knows what's up and will adress it in the patch.

If it has been a couple days, I'd say no point complaining. But it's been a year! holy fuck.

You have to be seriously stupid to not balance this game in a year.

Yes T3 and T4 are completely useless. I build T3 just so i have something to delay German OP I win until i get T34/85s which are useful.

I hope someone is taking lessons on how NOT to make a game

Katties and Su85 are still useful, djeezes bunch of whiney girls here.
I'm a OH player, played 4 games as soviet yesterday and won them all. I'm not saying that it means your arguments are all invalid, but there are a lot of guys here that just whine because it's not as easy to win as before.

YES it's not balanced at the moment
YES it will change
STOP the 10000 topics about it, it won't change untill the patch comes.

...you entered in a mine field with no engeneer.... there are alot of people upset here, not essentially because of the balance, but because the new game mechanics destroyed their confort. They cannot admit it and they are blaming the balance more than they should (this doesn't mean that the game is now balanced, but exageration is pushed to limits).

Anyway, this is not a balance topic and we are here off-topic.

A lot of bitching gong on.

People would moan if relic didn't work on patches.

People would moan if relic released patches too soon unfinished.

People would moan if patch notes were released early, because they would judge them without knowing the full picture, or assuming things wrongly.


Be patient people, it's not nice reading for anyone and adds nothing positive. It's their game, we might all be arm chair developers.. But that's where it ends.

They are the ones at the pointy end actually having to deal with real life problems.