Balance Poll for Early Game 1v1 (3.0.0.13106)

Axis don't need many skill for counter

Yes, this sums up germans this patch.

I play very heavy conscripts this patch because I know exactly what to do to counter maxims or penals or shocks or guards or snipers. And most other people know too. Conscripts are shit compared to grens, but they're still the soviet infantry unit that is overall the hardest to counter in the long run.

It is able, but it wont win on an 1v1 head on fight.
It compensates T34 by being cheaper, spammable, better anti-infantry(can cause wipes) and better mobility, I think.

Excuse me, what exactly do you mean by saying "better anti-infantry(can cause wipes)".
I really would like to hear it.

Currently you need to use your infantry at their best range for win versus the infantry with a best range different.

This is this who requier micro and "skill" i find.

That's like saying if you have a knife and I have an assault rifle, you need to fight me at your best range and I need to fight you at my best range.

If we start 300 metres away from each other, who do you think will win?

That's Grens vs. Cons in this patch for you.

Nice connection.
And someone explain to me how to get in close range with conscripts when on some maps you need to run them through an empty flat field with zero cover on it? Like corner of Steppes map with two muni points. Or again, same map - middle fuel.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/16370/balance-poll-for-early-game-1v1-3.0.0.13106/post/144442

------> That's the real sentence : Ye sur with your tactic of 4 cons start + t-2.
Axis don't need many skill for counter you.

Thx for the manipulation.


------->
Cruzz : "I play very heavy conscripts this patch because I know exactly what to do to counter maxims or penals"

Ah yeah, what a demonstration !

http://www.coh2.org/topic/16370/balance-poll-for-early-game-1v1-3.0.0.13106/post/144442

------> That's the real sentence : Ye sur with your tactic of 4 cons start + t-2.
Axis don't need many skill for counter you.

Thx for the manipulation.


------->
I play very heavy conscripts this patch because I know exactly what to do to counter maxims or penals

Ah yeah, what a demonstration !

What, you dare to post something against soviets here and not posting your stats??!!? Where in the world you think you are, boy?! This is a soviet fanboys topic and you should not speak without posting your stats so people can accuse you that you played more with germans and you know shit.

Neo hahahaha

Knife vs grens lOLolloLol

If you have conscripts with knife one Shoot gren at close range, you will win

Maybe 95 % of the map have a good area for penal for get their best range ( close range ) vs grens with their bad range ( close range ).

You need micro lol. SKILL TROLOL.

Please don't make a skill game relic, they want a lottery game and "baby game". Moar conscripts, moar grens.

-I use Kark98.

-Why man ?

-For counter Kark98 héhé, hope i will win ! hihi

Ouin Ouin MVGame

Mortar Halftrack OP? OMG

Seriously, whats next?

Mortar Halftrack OP? OMG

Seriously, whats next?

The bunker! The bunker is OP. It kills to manny tanks.

Neo hahahaha

Knife vs grens lOLolloLol

If you have conscripts with knife one Shoot gren at close range, you will win

Maybe 95 % of the map have a good area for penal for get their best range ( close range ) vs grens with their bad range ( close range ).

You need micro lol. SKILL TROLOL.

Please don't make a skill game relic, they want a lottery game and "baby game". Moar conscripts, moar grens.

-I use Kark98.

-Why man ?

-For counter Kark98 héhé, hope i will win ! hihi

Ouin Ouin MVGame

95% of the map has ideal range for Penals i.e close range? how did you figure this one out? on what map are 95% of your engagements at <5m-10m?

Lets look at DPS stats (weapon dps with reload) from the spreadsheet adjusted for number of models.

_________________N__________M__________F
Grens no LMG___23.664_____11.804____8.516

Penals_________32.388_____11.304____4.056

Cons___________17.172_____8.064_____3.948

Grens + LMG____33.058_____18.522____10.953

Just an LMG____15.31______9.669_____4.566

With such large DPS discrepancies the Grens can always be at their ideal range.

I.e. you are controlling the point and the penals have to advance towards you. You will win as you can kill most of them before they get to you or enough such that at close range their DPS is now inferior. This is generally what happens as most engagements are mid range or greater.

Conversely you are assaulting the point and you see penals waiting in cover 'utilising their optimum range' grens look at dps stats, laugh, proceed to stand at long range anyway and kill them anyway utilising their optimal aka superior range, they can also R nade from range to get them out of cover or force advance/retreat.

I don't see how you can argue skill/range utilisation issues when there is such a gross discrepancy. Yes penals are better close but their so bad at far range grens dont ever need to get close and can kill the penals before they get close if they try to advance. Cons as you can see are pathetic and a single LMG has the same dps as their entire squad.

Adding an LMG to the mix means that grens will beat any early game unit hands down + the above point on r nades whereas molotovs you have to get close which as pointed out is suicide.

The bunker! The bunker is OP. It kills to manny tanks.

Actually you have a point. The Bunker is OP because the Soviets have absolutely no equivalent.

Mortar Halftrack OP? OMG

Seriously, whats next?

I just find it hard to counter with the current state.

Cant counter mortar or snipe it.
Guards get killed by supporting grens when trying to kill MHT.
ZiS too slow and easily dealt with my MHT itself or supporting grens.
T70/T34 have to tech T3 which costs a lot and means you will suffer greatly late game.

May just be my opinion but that what this post is all about right?

also on the bunker I find that in late game when both teams are pop capped this can be very useful as its effectively a non pop cap MG which is very spammable and just one more thing to deal with.

"Yes penals are better close but their so bad at far range grens dont ever need to get close and can kill the penals before they get close if they try to advance."

-----> ?
Micro, use the map.

I said 95 % ( for 1 vs 1 and maybe 2 vs 2 only ) for a map like semoiskiy winter, or Rails and metal why not, Kharkhov too, etc.

Why ? Because you have many things, house, cover, trees for get the close range without damage at longe range vs grens, or very small damage ( but grens are completly rape at close range, so it's really not "a problem" ).

"Yes penals are better close but their so bad at far range grens dont ever need to get close and can kill the penals before they get close if they try to advance."

-----> ?
Micro, use the map.

I said 95 % ( for 1 vs 1 and maybe 2 vs 2 only ) for a map like semoiskiy winter, or Rails and metal why not, Kharkhov too, etc.

Why ? Because you have many things, house, cover, trees for get the close range without damage at longe range vs grens, or very small damage ( but grens are completly rape at close range, so it's really not "a problem" ).

Explain to me how I micro my penals toward a gren squad at range and win when the axis player can also just micro them further away or kill 2 models before I get there and win. Axis players have micro to you know, I know it doesn't seem necessary at the moment but it does exist!

Also the maps you have described a majority of the map is still open ground and will require advances on positions.

What do I do when grens have LMG? How do I micro my penals toward a garrisoned house or green cover without taking losses. What if the other player has used MG's/other units to cover the flanks.

As in all engagements range is one of the most effective tools to have. I know its off topic but even in bloody boxing range is one of the key stats!

Essentially this patch makes it more difficult for soviets to aggressively assault positions and harder to defend encamped positions. Not impossible not saying it cant be done but the fact is its more difficult than as axis that's the whole point.