Shreked PGrens... Balanced or no?

I don't play CoH2 too often anymore but I religiously watch casts like the Dane's and Roger's and Pounder and one thing which is consistently used and consistently performs well are panzergrenadiers with panzershreks.

They have the same range as tank guns, they have monster penetration (vs Soviet tanks anyway) and they're carried by infantry and with infantry getting hit by a tank is extremely rng dependent. I have no problem with that rng but what I do have a problem with is the range of panzershreks. All the time I see these panzershreks charging at T-34s or SU-85s blazing away with shreks, their toughness allowing them to weather return small arms fire and their infantry size making it very difficult for the tanks to shut down an assault. The result of this charge are that Soviet tanks must fall back against these ubermensch charging them who get tons of vet from damaging if not killing Soviet tanks and are then able to simply retreat away with little chance of being killed while doing it. To me that strikes me as a ridiculous imbalance, especially considering the poor quality of Soviet infantry AT in comparison.


TL DR: Panzershreks have too good range and damage for their mobility.

Is this balanced or not, because from my perspective as a viewer of these streams and casts, it certainly ain't.

Balanced. They shouldn't get in the range in first place. They can be stopped either with e.g. shocks, maxims or skill planes. No need to change anything. Shrecks are 120 munitions so they aren't that easy to save either.

To my mind though the problem is that in every cast I've seen between skilled players as well as in everyone of my own games PGs can and will get into range and when they do it is impossible for Soviets to prevent them from taking apart their armour...

They don't worry me at all, they're pretty easy to kill. I think they're balanced. I'm sure you just saw some good use of them in those casts.

They used to be more reasonable with old snipers and old shocks. Now in this patch, if you can't call in a KV8 as soviets, I honestly don't have a freaking clue what to do about them that isn't purely relying on luck (katyusha barrages whenever they're closing and pray really hard it actually hits on spot) or horrible play by the german (running straight into a demo with their blob of them, for instance)

Charging with shrecks out in the open (no cover) against a tank should be a instant squadwipe.

The problem is that in my experience it ain't... IS series obviously an exception but that's doctrinal and shreked pgrens ain't...

LoL dude, they get wiped out pretty easily even with a T34 shot.

And a T-34 can be destroyed just as quickly... as I said, I feel it's too rng based, sometimes as you say 2 or 3 models will be knocked out, other times nothing happens and they waltz on in and take out all Soviet armour and retreat back with an extra star of vet to their credit...

The low lethality of the current t34 against infantry and the inherent and deliberate lethality of the SU85 against infantry make PGs a very viable AT unit. I'm not sure about the ranges but they seem to outrange the t34.

Their penetration is 170 (on par with atgs, the highest next to the pak43 penetration value). Per shot they'll do 120 damage and will always penetrate t34s and in 94% of all times SU85s. One salvo will bring down a t34 by more than a third of it's hp (640).

The popularity of PGs has 4 reasons in my view:
1) they do not cost any fuel
2) they do not require the amount of micro a pak40 does
3) they're amongst the most survivable infantry units in the game
4) they outperform the pak40 per salvo in damage (any good player will either back up with his tank to avoid the pak or drive out of the arc of fire, which nullifies the paks higher rate of fire)

underperforming but useful, prozershreks should not be dropped

underperforming but useful, prozershreks should not be dropped

+1

or you drop every gunupgrade (ppsh, G43, shreks, ...) or you drop non.

Penetration is way to high. Needs to be curbed to 150~ OR reduce the amount a Pgren squad can carry to 1. The trouble is when you get two Pgren squads with 4 Sherks. They can instantly wipe a piece of armor.

Penetration is way to high. Needs to be curbed to 150~ OR reduce the amount a Pgren squad can carry to 1. The trouble is when you get two Pgren squads with 4 Sherks. They can instantly wipe a piece of armor.

But they are also very costly.
They can be good, only the sprinting is kinda stupid.
I mean, 2 panzers on a light vehicle can wreck a piece of armor..

Panzershrecks are costly. and the Panzergrenadiers are 4 man squads. In most cases where they get run out in the open they tend to get punished for it. And even risk dropping panzershrecks.

Also they do not have the range of a tank, in fact it is less. Also noting that upgrading a Panzergrenadier squad with panzershrecks markedly reduces their anti-infantry capability. And a well placed infantry squad can usually do quite a bit of work on them.

Over performing under punished for piss poor play. 120 muni to negate all but call ins. And people think this is balanced. Fine cut down the recharge on button by half double the pen of ptrs rifles and make button free. After all the dp LMG is 100 muni....

Back to reality now. Charging infantry directly against a t34 or t70 should be severely punished. It's bad play and requires no skill or micro.

They used to be more reasonable with old snipers and old shocks. Now in this patch, if you can't call in a KV8 as soviets, I honestly don't have a freaking clue what to do about them that isn't purely relying on luck (katyusha barrages whenever they're closing and pray really hard it actually hits on spot) or horrible play by the german (running straight into a demo with their blob of them, for instance)

PzG lost their armor which accounted for a huge amount of survivability against infantry. Honestly a single squad of penals or ppsh scripts or current shocks is more than enough to deter me from rushing a shrek squad when playing Ostheer, and I do the same when playing soviets, unless maybe as a risk to finish a nearly dead tank.

The only thing that's annoying from all sides of the equation is the complete RNG nature of tanks vs infantry. I've had a T34 one shot a pgren squad and I've had a T34 fail to kill a single model in 4-5 shots. The lack of consistency and lack of play involvement (short of knowing when to stop tanks to fire so they don't get the moving penalty) makes this game less enjoyable than it could be.

the problem is not that shrecks are op, its that tanks are very inconsistent againts infantry, tanks should kill 1-2 guys with every shot againts troops in no cover. Sometimes they kill alot, sometimes t-34 shoots 5 shots without killing anybody.


Panzershrecks should be a defensive AT weapon, they shouldn't be used offensivelly. But they are, because tanks are too inconsistent againts infantry.

OP, the answer to your question is, no, was never, is not and probably will never.

Yes, the PzGrens with shrecks are so OP.

Also I believe cons with their mossins are so OP. They should be equiped with slings.