Making Soviets more Soviety

i cant understand how you all fall for the russian propaganda that the "enemy at the gates style" didnt happen... explain to me how finland killed 3x more soviets than we lost with barely any equipment... we didnt even fire our artillery sometimes because our ammo was so low, our airforce was a joke and we barely had any tanks and not to mention wastly outnumbered and yet soviets died in droves.

I got family who fought the war so i heard my facts from guys who was there not from some shitty documentary.

Your country caused so many casulaties because the Soviets soldiers were poorly equipped for winter and they just kept rushing at the enemy hoping to scare them by the amount of men and "Uraa", which didn't work very well and instead got them killed. After the Winter War the Red Army decided to get its shit together and make some reforms. Your country doing a lot of damage in the Winter War doesn't really say anything about the Red Army during WW2 because like I said, the Red Army was in a shite shape at that point.

Your country caused so many casulaties because the Soviets soldiers were poorly equipped for winter and they just kept rushing at the enemy hoping to scare them by the amount of men and "Uraa", which didn't work very well and instead got them killed. After the Winter War the Red Army decided to get its shit together and make some reforms. Your country doing a lot of damage in the Winter War doesn't really say anything about the Red Army during WW2 because like I said, the Red Army was in a shite shape at that point.

exactly!! so why everyone behaving like soviet army was on par with german? They just sent them in on suicide waves just like the movie enemy at the gates.

exactly!! so why everyone behaving like soviet army was on par with german? They just sent them in on suicide waves just like the movie enemy at the gates.

I'm not agreeing with you lol did you even read beyond the first sentence?

I said that you caused a ton of casualties because they were in a shit shape in the Winter War. NOT WW2. During Stalingrad everyone had rifles. Sure during the beginning of Barbarossa sometimes the Soviets didn't have rifles for everyone but by the time Stalingrad was happening that didn't happen anymore.

The post-Stalingrad Red Army, from the Spring of 1943 onwards, got its shit together. It was better equipped, led and motivated. The political leadership began to trust their generals and realised that dogma and execution was counter-productive.

Given that CoH2 is set in 1944 (more or less) the most representative soviet units would be Guards and Shocks, well-motivated and seasoned combat veterans with decent equipment and properly developed doctrine.

In fact the whole design ethos behind CoH2 seems to be to model the Soviet faction on the Op. Barbarossa-era Red Army, not the one that evolved the hard way after Op. Uranus / Little Star.

Now all the pURe GaemERs are welcome to pile in a say "it's just a game" but given Relic's hyperbole about at soupcon of historical veracity, I call bullshit on the design ethic of the faction from this POV.

I'm not agreeing with you lol did you even read beyond the first sentence?

I said that you caused a ton of casualties because they were in a shit shape in the Winter War. NOT WW2. During Stalingrad everyone had rifles. Sure during the beginning of Barbarossa sometimes the Soviets didn't have rifles for everyone but by the time Stalingrad was happening that didn't happen anymore.

Do you even know we fought 2 wars? First Winter war and then the continuation war... that lasted 1941-1944 so what are you talking about?

And during the continuation war Finland was the attacking part and still lost only 60 000 men while soviet lost 250 000 and i have seen pictures from the finnish front of KV1, T34 and ISU152 so they indeed had decent equipment. So again the soviet army was never even near german quality..

Yes, give us some reality. Make that just 3 cons have rifles in the squad. HAHAHA

The misconception that the Red Army lacked enough weapons to arm its men comes from the Battle of Stalingrad. Specifically, General Rodimstev's 13th Guards Rifle Division. The 13th Guards was involved in heavy fighting directly before the Battle of Stalingrad, and had been deployed to the rear to re-arm and to be reinforced. When the garrison at Stalingrad was threatened, the 13th Guards was hurriedly issued with as many PPSh-41, PPS-43, and PPD submachine guns, DP light machine guns, and SVT rifles as were available (and of course Mosin-Nagant rifles for anyone not issued with CQC weaponry) and was shipped across the Volga river at under half strength--only 10,000 men are listed under its roster. 3,000 of those men were killed by shellfire and Luftwaffe attacks before even making it across the river. Now, because of the heavy losses it sustained before the battle, it is suspected that only 1,000 to 2,000 of the 13th Guards' members could be considered combat-experienced--meaning that 8/10 to 9/10 of the division had no flipping clue what it was doing. The 13th Guards was also issued no maps to the city, and thus had no way in which to navigate or to achieve any objectives. Because of the heavy losses sustained while crossing the river, many weapons and supplies were lost, with additional shipments (mostly 7.62mm ammunition and Mosin rifles) coming across with or after the 13th Guards. Thus, the 13th Guards was forced to scrounge German weapons or to make due with knives, bayonets, and sharpened entrenching tools until sufficient stocks of weapons were delivered. This, however, was unneeded, as within 48-72 hours, the division is widely considered to have been destroyed down to ~2,000 to 500 men (with only 280-320 surviving the battle), despite what is considered an impressive (for an inexperienced unit) 1:1 or slightly higher (in favor of the Guards) kill ratio, and the achievement, if only temporarily, of all of its objectives.

Yes, give us some reality. Make that just 3 cons have rifles in the squad. HAHAHA

In 1940,the Soviet Army had 6000000 Mosin rifles at a army of 2500000 people...please don't learn your history from Hollywood movies
As to Finlands and Germany's early succes,google Stalin's Purge...

Actually, there were arms shortages, for one, Khrushchev famously said in his denouncement of Stalin that he'd told Stalin during the defense of IIRC Kiev that there weren't enough rifles.
re: 13th Guards Rifle Division, shortages weren't limited to that particular unit. Other units such as the 138th Rifle Division at Stalingrad also suffered from a shortage of weapons, as well as other units. The One rifle two man stuff is nonsense however, as well as the human wave assaults by Stalingrad. The nature of the fighting, close quarters with no quarter given is what caused so many casualties. In 1941 however there were some human wave assaults, thanks to unimaginative Soviet commanders... There are some eye witness accounts from German as well as a few Soviet sources as well...

But the whole weapons shortages thing in CoH2 is unworkable, we're discussing how to make Soviets a bit better, not worse!

I've heard of soldiers without weapons but those were isolated cases and were due to German blitzkrieg and poor preparations for preventing the invasion on the Soviet side

In 1940,the Soviet Army had 6000000 Mosin rifles at a army of 2500000 people...please don't learn your history from Hollywood movies
As to Finlands and Germany's early succes,google Stalin's Purge...

I don't, I actually studied alot of history myself.
That was just a jocke, tried to be funny and wind up some soviet fanboys, no harm intended.

I don't, I actually studied alot of history myself.
That was just a jocke, tried to be funny and wind up some soviet fanboys, no harm intended.

I live in a country that was part of the Soviet Union,so that make's me a fanboy?
Thank you dear sir with the nickname identical to a specific murderers organization

I don't, I actually studied alot of history myself.
That was just a jocke, tried to be funny and wind up some soviet fanboys, no harm intended.

I'm sorry... but you can't have if you have a name beginning with "SS"...

I live in a country that was part of the Soviet Union,so that make's me a fanboy?
Thank you dear sir with the nickname identical to a specific murderers organization

Oh, I guess it was better if it would start with N.K.V.D.? They were innocent little girls? Though Relic didn't mind to build a doctrine with their name. So no, I don't have a problem starting my nickname with SS. A nickname is just a nickname, it doesn't mean I approve or liked what those murderers did. As far as I am concerned you can choose a nickname like "M..er f...cker" whithout meaning that you actually do what it says.

Tbh the problem for me is more the combination of german heartseeking mortars (not even talking about that mortar HT everybody seems to use now) that just seem to blow my squads away so fast when making use of cover.

I mostly play 2v2 but only see germans start with gren/ass gren spam followed by 1 mg and 2 mortars. After that Pz Gens, HT and Pak and not building anything till getting a tiger out.

What happens is that by the time they get a tiger out I maybe have a T34 and it just happens way too often where you have to retreat full support weapon squads because german mortar hits them on 1st/2nd shot.

I will not even talk about the incendiary barrage from the HT because this one just means insta retreat 99% of the time.

+ soviets also need something more interesting like german artillery officer

exactly!! so why everyone behaving like soviet army was on par with german? They just sent them in on suicide waves just like the movie enemy at the gates.

Yuck. Yuck. Yuck. Please give me a source (a valid source about this, and enemy at the gates is not a valid source).

If we look at the statistics, the kill ratio was about 1 on 1.3 in favor of the germans. And that 0.3 came from the huge casaulties at the start of barbarossa.

In finland there were huge casaulties becasue of 1. Inexperienced officers ( due to Stalins purge)2. Harsh winter climate, if the red army would of attacked in summer, Finland would be gone in 1.5 weeks. 3. Poorly trained soviet soldiers.
Yes, some of that was still present at the start of the war, but after Stalingrad, russian tactics and strategical thinking became in no way worse than the germans. Oh, and let me tell you some "strategic mistakes" that the germans did. Paul in Stalingrad easily could of created a mobile reserve which could of prevented german 6th army being encircled , but yet Hitler decided ( And unlike rommel Paul only listened to hitler, didin't really think much himself), that the german is not going to leave Stalingrad, and even when they were encircled, HE still didin't give them the order to try and evacaute, instead saying Manstein will come and rescue you!!! It's even worse than the soviet whole "not one step back" mentality. I mean when the soviets realized that they were horribly encircled atleast they tried to make it out of the encirclement. If you still think that the soviets performed human wave attacks, then please google "operation bagration" which the soviets demolished the entire front, and "operation uranus" both of these ended as brutal fiascos for the germans. By 1944, (which the game is set in btw) your average russian soldier was in no less worse than the average russian soldier.

You mean that soviets got seriously outplayed from the start of Op.Barbarossa until the start of the encirclement of Stalingrad?

+ soviets also need something more interesting like German artillery officer

they planned tons of new soviet units and abilities, and even a couple new buildings in the beta, including the commissar. it was in a entire doctrine based around the fact that retreating was disabled when you clicked it

but your manpower got +200 and you built all infantry instantly


they never implemented any of them. stormtroopers? nope. urban paznergrens nope. build-able watchtowers? nope. german forward base? nope.

they planned tons of new soviet units and abilities, and even a couple new buildings in the beta, including the commissar. it was in a entire doctrine based around the fact that retreating was disabled when you clicked it


they never implemented any of them. stormtroopers? nope. urban paznergrens nope. build-able watchtowers? nope. german forward base? nope.

I enabled that with modding before they cut off our workaround.

Cons literally took ~2 seconds to build, and you had 2x manpower income. Half fuel and munitions income though. And ofc, no retreat ability. The death of your commissar squad would "shatter" and force retreat your troops though, so you could suicide him to save your con horde.