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russian armor

L2P thread of post-patched Soviet

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27 Mar 2014, 15:34 PM
#61
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 15:28 PMBudwise
Agreed with the OP. Too many soviet players are just used to swarming a map with infantry, neglecting cover, and winning.

This patch is a MASSIVE step in the right direction for COH2 but of course there will be more adjustments in the future such as pios im sure. For once a patch that raises the skill level a bit instead of lowering it, and that goes for both factions. Of course scrub players who nub'd their way to the top of the ladder will hate it. I hope to see more patches like this in the future.


I can literally just attack move towards soviet base with grens and be assured of winning unless the soviet player has found some green cover to hide behind. Wow much skill, so tactic. I would've hated to play germans before this if this counts as "raising the skill level".
27 Mar 2014, 15:35 PM
#62
avatar of Razh

Posts: 166

Permanently Banned
After ~30 in house scrims, two major issues are clear to me:

Con $/performance has deviated too far from Grens.
The 222 is forcing ZiS/Guards even harder than the FHT did.

T2 maxim/zis play into kv8 is only fun for so many games until you think 'fuck, I can be killing entire armies with pgrens right now'.
27 Mar 2014, 15:40 PM
#63
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 15:34 PMCruzz


I can literally just attack move towards soviet base with grens and be assured of winning unless the soviet player has found some green cover to hide behind. Wow much skill, so tactic. I would've hated to play germans before this if this counts as "raising the skill level".


Post the replay of this vs a competent player and I'll believe.
27 Mar 2014, 15:42 PM
#64
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

Can we please buff the soviet defense doctrine. The DHSK gun can barely stop piospam!!! That would be a pretty decent early game doctrine (which is important now) if the CPs for DHSK were moved down one!

Anyway been playing nothing but sov games... Won 1 lost 4. Dont know what to think yet... But rifle nades are killer, LMGs hurt even worse now, and houses dont seem to provide as much cover as i thought (or they should). My rank fell from top 100 to far past 100... And I played guys who i consistently have beaten. EH... Ill keep trudging through soviets until something works.
27 Mar 2014, 15:45 PM
#65
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 15:35 PMRazh
After ~30 in house scrims, two major issues are clear to me:

Con $/performance has deviated too far from Grens.
The 222 is forcing ZiS/Guards even harder than the FHT did.

T2 maxim/zis play into kv8 is only fun for so many games until you think 'fuck, I can be killing entire armies with pgrens right now'.

Play some automatch Raz, the Germans are waiting to eat your streak up.
27 Mar 2014, 15:50 PM
#66
avatar of Razh

Posts: 166

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 15:45 PMVonIvan

Play some automatch Raz, the Germans are waiting to eat your streak up.


I'm too scared :(
27 Mar 2014, 15:54 PM
#67
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 15:31 PMQubix


opened this thread to see vonivans opinion on this...i guess i should've expected this lol

Why give an opinion when the bs is blatantly obvious.
But since you inquired:
27 Mar 2014, 16:14 PM
#68
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

Russians just need to get over the "left-click, right-click - blob attitude" they have. If you charge your infantry into German lines, not using cover, expect to die. Pioneers are bad at long range, Mosins are good at long range, figure it out. Choosing 3 conscript-squads and oorahing into German lines head on won´t do it. Try using some Maxims or Penals along your regular infantry.

Also it´s funny to see VonIvan complain. Some months ago I played 2 games in a row against him and all he did use was the T70 soviet industry rush. Now suddenly everything is unfair.
27 Mar 2014, 16:15 PM
#69
avatar of buckers

Posts: 230

Russians just need to get over the "left-click, right-click - blob attitude" they have. If you charge your infantry into German lines, not using cover, expect to die. Pioneers are bad at long range, Mosins are good at long range, figure it out. Choosing 3 conscript-squads and oorahing into German lines head on won´t do it. Try using some Maxims or Penals along your regular infantry.

Also it´s funny to see VonIvan complain. Some months ago I played 2 games in a row against him and all he did use was the T70 soviet industry rush. Now suddenly everything is unfair.


LOL
all you did was complain when germs had the short end of the stick now you're acting like it's a perfect game

fan-fucking-boy.
27 Mar 2014, 16:17 PM
#70
avatar of Flamee

Posts: 710

Russians just need to get over the "left-click, right-click - blob attitude" they have. If you charge your infantry into German lines, not using cover, expect to die. Pioneers are bad at long range, Mosins are good at long range, figure it out. Choosing 3 conscript-squads and oorahing into German lines head on won´t do it. Try using some Maxims or Penals along your regular infantry.

Also it´s funny to see VonIvan complain. Some months ago I played 2 games in a row against him and all he did use was the T70 soviet industry rush. Now suddenly everything is unfair.


So you have played as Soviets after the patch? Could you share your win ratio? I still agree that patch is step to right direction, no deny about that. Biggest problems IMO are pioneers. They deny the map control rather easily.
27 Mar 2014, 16:18 PM
#71
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

Russians just need to get over the "left-click, right-click - blob attitude" they have. If you charge your infantry into German lines, not using cover, expect to die. Pioneers are bad at long range, Mosins are good at long range, figure it out. Choosing 3 conscript-squads and oorahing into German lines head on won´t do it. Try using some Maxims or Penals along your regular infantry.

Also it´s funny to see VonIvan complain. Some months ago I played 2 games in a row against him and all he did use was the T70 soviet industry rush. Now suddenly everything is unfair.

But its totaly ok to do it with pio and agrens right?
27 Mar 2014, 16:19 PM
#72
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 16:15 PMbuckers


LOL
all you did was complain when germs had the short end of the stick now you're acting like it's a perfect game

fan-fucking-boy.
"Everybody not agreeing with me is a fanboy. And when I´m out of arguments, I´ll try to lower the credibility of the opposing party". I have the opinion that the patch was a step in the right direction, yes. Germans were weaker pre patch, too weak, yes. That´s an opinion. Does that make me a fanboy? So, bring some real arguments or stfu.
27 Mar 2014, 16:21 PM
#73
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 16:17 PMFlamee


So you have played as Soviets after the patch? Could you share your win ratio? I still agree that patch is step to right direction, no deny about that. Biggest problems IMO are pioneers. They deny the map control rather easily.


I agree. I like it but the Soviets lack the tools to assault really. They have always lacked the tools to defend as well as Ost.

So now they have no assault advantage, no defense advantage and well the late game is untouched. Now what?

Fix Pios and tweak Soviet support weapons if we are meant to turtle. And make Penals good at something not just scripts with a better vet.

27 Mar 2014, 16:23 PM
#74
avatar of buckers

Posts: 230

"Everybody not agreeing with me is a fanboy. And when I´m out of arguments, I´ll try to lower the credibility of the opposing party.". I have the opinion that the patch was a step in the right direction, yes. Germans were weaker pre patch, too weak, yes. Does that make me a fanboy? Grow up!



but you actually were.... lol you're not denying it are you...
too scared to post your ladder page? prove me wrong, ey?
27 Mar 2014, 16:28 PM
#75
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

The fact that you are trying to argue about my person, shows me you are out of arguments. Also I´m not falling for that manipulative way of yours. As soon as my stats show some percentage more of German games I´m a "fanboy". there are actually people who don´t a gree with you out there, name calling won´t help you.

Again, try to bring some real arguments.
27 Mar 2014, 16:32 PM
#76
avatar of 5thSSPzWiking

Posts: 135

god i hate commie fangirls. thank god they are too dumb to use cover and tactics. so much fun getting revenge for the easy mode soviet spam ran around with shocks and kill all german infantry. ahhh yes let the tears flow. comrade stalin will have to hand out free passes to his moustache rides to calm the hordes of sov whinegirls.
27 Mar 2014, 16:33 PM
#77
avatar of buckers

Posts: 230

The fact that you are trying to argue about my person, shows me you are out of arguments. Also I´m not falling for that manipulative way of yours. As soon as my stats show some percentage more of German games I´m a "fanboy". there are actually people who don´t a gree with you out there, name calling won´t help you.

Again, try to bring some real arguments.


hey, let's bring it back a step here mate.

i'm not saying ANYTHING about your person. i'm just calling you misinformed because i have it under good knowledge that you pretty much are a german player, and that's cool. i like winning too!


but y'know, mate
people who don't have a remotely sort of even split between factions should kinda piss off from all balance discussion.... ya get where i'm heading?

heck, i'm probably consider a majority german player too, i've got a 180 - 130 split or something, nothing horrific like many of the... sadly very vocal members of this glorious forum B-)
27 Mar 2014, 16:34 PM
#78
avatar of Flamee

Posts: 710

god i hate commie fangirls. thank god they are too dumb to use cover and tactics. so much fun getting revenge for the easy mode soviet spam ran around with shocks and kill all german infantry. ahhh yes let the tears flow. comrade stalin will have to hand out free passes to his moustache rides to calm the hordes of sov whinegirls.


You go girl!

27 Mar 2014, 16:36 PM
#79
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

It's hard for me to estimate who's going to be the winner in each engagement when units just hop around like mad every time they get shot at.

statistically Cons should have beat Grens at close combat 2.86 Mosinagants * 6 cons = 17.16 dps. It should take 18.6 seconds to take out one 320 hp Grenadier squad.

Grenadiers 5.86 Kar98k * 4 Grenadiers = 22.72 dps. It should take 21.12 seconds to beat a 480 hp Conscript Squad.

This is at point blank range, but to look at other values.

Range : Conscripts dps | time2killgren | Grenadiers dps | time2killcon

  • 0: 17.6 | 18.18 | 22.72 | 21.12
  • 5: 16.14 | 19.82 | 19.88 | 24.14
  • 10: 12.42 | 25.76 | 17.08 | 28.1
  • 15: 9.9 | 32.32 | 14.92 | 32.17
  • 20: 8.04 | 39.8 | 13.2 | 36.36
  • 25: 6.36 | 50.31 | 11.8 | 40.67



So it looks like the Conscripts are supposed to beat Grenadiers below the range of 20. However, because units hope around being shot at and that units take more then 2 seconds to shoot after moving it doesn't really matter.
27 Mar 2014, 16:40 PM
#80
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

Well ,not person, but the way you are trying to undermine my credibility here is just pathetic.

You just assume I´m a German fanboy, because I have a different opinion. This way you don´t have to deal with any argument.

And that´s weak.
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