after 3/25 patch: what are soviet options for winning ?

Am I the only one that feels like some of the responses over this come off as pretentious?

It's pretty obvious that this patch negatively effected the Soviet side and as a result some strategies are going to have to change, as a result of that people are going to ask about what to change, and although use cover is useful advice (albeit an elementary concept), a large L2P isn't very constructive.

My opening was always to sprint my engineer to cap a point from the beginning and build scripts to immediately back them up, but that is now terribly innefective because pios will just rush and crush just about any infantry. My best advice is to cap where they aren't at the very beginning. You will lose ground this way (but hopefully get it back). The defensive doctrine with the DSHK and the 45mm at gun seems to be fairly effective. I make a wall of them and progressively leapfrog my way up to take control of the map. Scripts for me have been downgraded to cheap reinforcements and not a very useful fighting force.

I never built both tiers. I always just combined T-34 with Zis.

This set-up is very weak against things like panzerwerfers and mortar halftracks.

But it does not matter. That one developer, Psqumish or whatever his name is, already confirmed that soviets are not supposed to be able to use combined arms.

Quitting game till next patch this is worse than tiger ace at least that was just one commander. I played Germans spammed pios into T2 SC and Pgrens nothing they could do at all even maxims and dshk are no use when SC is out or my personal fave:

2 pios in a HT drive up to units get out kill them reinforce and repair and next lol!
Building NP upgrade flames, Guards NP they wont have button as its 150 munis and my pios can kill them before they kill the HT repair reinforce move on. Oh I capped a point outside their base I'll just build a bunker and mines and pin them with my multi purpose army. OH shocks, are they further away than slapping range? no well i'll just laugh at their pee shooters and reinforce while I kill them.

Relics advice before on AG was so funny so err basically you err tactically retreat to the base when you see this unit don't try to fight it because we made it OP. Avoid the ridiculous vet0 sprint ability then let them cap all the points maybe throw a molotov which they defo wont see and run around as they chase and kill you then go back when you have 2 squads for every 1 AG and they garrisoned MG's in all the buildings and choke points. Yeah...........

Okay seriously guys wth kind of game are you playing, you MUST be doing SOMETHING wrong when your cons die even though they're in green cover and are shooting at grens at long range.

Vanilla Grens outshout vanilla conscripts at long range. On top of that, grens have upgrades that double their long range DPS. Grens also have long range grenades which they get for free while teching up. On top of that, many types of green cover, like wells, haystacks and farming equipment only provide green cover for 3-4 men. So yeah, germans have a big advantage in long range combat.

This set-up is very weak against things like panzerwerfers and mortar halftracks.

But it does not matter. That one developer, Psqumish or whatever his name is, already confirmed that soviets are not supposed to be able to use combined arms.

He confirmed that soviets aren t designed to be a flexible army.They are designed to just spam a type of unit over and over and over again until the enemy gets bored to death.

In starcraft 2 there are 3 races and all 3 are flexible without any limitations in there tech tree and they are all very different from each other.In CoH2 one army is extreme flexible and the other not. This is game design "made by relic".

Armor decrease on units has no impact on tanks like IS2 or KV8 or even the mortar, unless you're talking about the coax guns which isn't exactly their selling point. Armor is only effective vs small arms fire, not explosions or flame. Grenadiers are exactly as weak to these units as they were prepatch. They're actually more weak to infantry now because they don't shrug off shots at all. Their lethality is substantially higher but survivability for guards/shocks/pgrens/grens was just straight nerfed. Not complaining either.

Not being able to build both tiers will impact exactly 0 games for me in 2v2 or 1v1. I have never built both tiers, though I guess in bigger games this might be more relevant. Soviets T3/T4 have always been too expensive to tech both so this doesn't really change anything imo. If I feel like I've had the edge and want early pressure I'll go T3 and if I'm worried about heavy armor I'll go T4. I'm not really defending lack of options, but realistically this is how it has always worked. It being more expensive doesn't really change much.

Pioneers do need a minor DPS decrease and conscripts could probably use the RoF increase that riflemen got in vCoH when at medium/close range so that they make up for closing the distance, but otherwise it's remarkably close to vCoH volks/rifles dynamic. Which is great.

It feels like most soviet players (I'm guilty of this as well) are so used to 4-5x cons into some armor into victory. It looks like this meta doesn't exist anymore and you're going to need mortars and machine guns and whatever else to supplement the force. Ignoring that and trying to make the old builds work is just an effort in frustration. Give it time to develop, be flexible. Then make suggestions.

He confirmed that soviets aren t designed to be a flexible army.They are designed to just spam a type of unit over and over and over again until the enemy gets bored to death.

In starcraft 2 there are 3 races and all 3 are flexible without any limitations in there tech tree and they are all very different from each other.In CoH2 one army is extreme flexible and the other not. This is game design "made by relic".

Yeah, I asked him why he thought that spamming the same units over and over was preferable to the starcraft-style of tech switching. He did not respond.

Not being able to build both tiers will impact exactly 0 games for me in 2v2 or 1v1. I have never built both tiers, though I guess in bigger games this might be more relevant. Soviets T3/T4 have always been too expensive to tech both so this doesn't really change anything imo. If I feel like I've had the edge and want early pressure I'll go T3 and if I'm worried about heavy armor I'll go T4. I'm not really defending lack of options, but realistically this is how it has always worked. It being more expensive doesn't really change much.

For you maybe. In 1v1 I frequently had both T3 and T4 building up. This is now made much harder, for no reason at all.

A much more elegant solution would be to just add in a 50 fuel hq upgrade (unlocked after T1/T2 was build) to unlock T3/4. It gives the same delay on tech, but doesn't screw over the ability for soviets combined arms more than it already was.

SU - 85, 120mm insta gib Mortar, KV - 8... forgot sth?

120mm insta gib mortar? Dude, what game are you playing? This thing got nerfed a long time ago. Even if you drop a shell right in the middle of a squad, it barely kills three models.
And this is still a very good deal because with one model left OH player will hit retreat. Retreat = won engagement.
I haven't seen insta gib mortar kills since last patch.

er bro what game are you playing? 120mm still gibs.. I seen plenty of instagibs. Thats what the soviet army is good at, instagibbing german squads.

ok here is my opinion on soviets now...

early game is preatty balanced, except assasult grens, which have to much armor, for ther price, they are as good as shocks, for lower price and reinforce.

pios need decreased dmg, becouse they are to effective combat unit for there price. 2 pios start can be preaty good, becouse they can win fights vs con/engi or con/con even if con are in cover, when they close distance, there is still chance that pios will win the fight, and if you consider that 2 pios cost a little less than 2 cons and they are more effective, that hurt MP game eary in game.

I think shoks need armor increase from 1.5 to 1.8-2. They are to expensive for effect that give you. If you closing shock on grens in cover, with or withuot lmg, they will loss 2 to 3 guys whick is really expensive that you count 2-3 grens models which he will lose when you close it down...mp loss, and i dont wanna mention the rifle granade hit.

the 4 thing which i notice, in games are that axis now easly build tanks...in 35 min of the game axis player if skips t2 can have 4-5 p4 or 2 tigers, which is kinda redicoulus. And there is also axis tank veterancy. When axis tanks hit vet 2 or 3, there is a really hard to battle them with armor skirts...and with grens with g34 rifles.

thats is what i think that is the issue in the moment for soviet player

ok here is my opinion on soviets now...

early game is preatty balanced, except assasult grens, which have to much armor, for ther price, they are as good as shocks, for lower price and reinforce.

pios need decreased dmg, becouse they are to effective combat unit for there price. 2 pios start can be preaty good, becouse they can win fights vs con/engi or con/con even if con are in cover, when they close distance, there is still chance that pios will win the fight, and if you consider that 2 pios cost a little less than 2 cons and they are more effective, that hurt MP game eary in game.

I think shoks need armor increase from 1.5 to 1.8-2. They are to expensive for effect that give you. If you closing shock on grens in cover, with or withuot lmg, they will loss 2 to 3 guys whick is really expensive that you count 2-3 grens models which he will lose when you close it down...mp loss, and i dont wanna mention the rifle granade hit.

the 4 thing which i notice, in games are that axis now easly build tanks...in 35 min of the game axis player if skips t2 can have 4-5 p4 or 2 tigers, which is kinda redicoulus. And there is also axis tank veterancy. When axis tanks hit vet 2 or 3, there is a really hard to battle them with armor skirts...and with grens with g34 rifles.

thats is what i think that is the issue in the moment for soviet player

+13456765432345678

er bro what game are you playing? 120mm still gibs.. I seen plenty of instagibs. Thats what the soviet army is good at, instagibbing german squads.

I guess RNG Gods don't really shine at me lately... but I haven't seen mortar gib kills in a quite long time.

that instagib whic you are talking about its called precision shoot, and you get it at 120 mm mortar when he hits vet 1, and you pay munition

ok here is my opinion on soviets now...

early game is preatty balanced, except assasult grens, which have to much armor, for ther price, they are as good as shocks, for lower price and reinforce.

pios need decreased dmg, becouse they are to effective combat unit for there price. 2 pios start can be preaty good, becouse they can win fights vs con/engi or con/con even if con are in cover, when they close distance, there is still chance that pios will win the fight, and if you consider that 2 pios cost a little less than 2 cons and they are more effective, that hurt MP game eary in game.

I think shoks need armor increase from 1.5 to 1.8-2. They are to expensive for effect that give you. If you closing shock on grens in cover, with or withuot lmg, they will loss 2 to 3 guys whick is really expensive that you count 2-3 grens models which he will lose when you close it down...mp loss, and i dont wanna mention the rifle granade hit.

the 4 thing which i notice, in games are that axis now easly build tanks...in 35 min of the game axis player if skips t2 can have 4-5 p4 or 2 tigers, which is kinda redicoulus. And there is also axis tank veterancy. When axis tanks hit vet 2 or 3, there is a really hard to battle them with armor skirts...and with grens with g34 rifles.

thats is what i think that is the issue in the moment for soviet player

I've just had a 2v2 game with 6 pios to p4 to 3 tigers build order (ended up with 5 pios and 3 tigers). Pios are WAAAAY too good for the price. Relic sure does love their pios, eh?

On the topic - I guess i won't be playing Soviets for a while, lol. Much broken. Very frustration. :'(

Edit: replay

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  1

  VS

  Rooh.drigo ZeroCool

  Acnirak-TheChapuler Chaotic

  Germany can into piospam (in 2v2 at least)

  by: Chaotic map: Moscow Outskirts Winter

  3

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I've just had a 2v2 game with 6 pios to p4 to 3 tigers build order (ended up with 5 pios and 3 tigers). Pios are WAAAAY too good for the price. Relic sure does love their pios, eh?

On the topic - I guess i won't be playing Soviets for a while, lol. Much broken. Very frustration. :'(

Yeah pios are too good.

They can just walk up to a conscript squad and kill them.

Any tank or mortar doesnt really benefit to the german infantry armor decrease. Unless you count coaxle HMG or hull mg's. The main two vehicle units that benefit from this is the scout car and mainly the m3 halftrack with quadmount. So far, it eats germans alive, but can be killed by practically everything that has a faust and above.

Russians are supposed to be offensive. They have to charge the enemy, because the germans will always beat them with their better ranged weapons. People assume that you will always get a perfect medium ranged green cover conscript squad with a no cover/yellow cover gren squad. That is not the case! Sitting in cover will lose you ground, and you have to move your units up out of cover to push them off. Unless you can micro each conscript to matrix and dodge each bullet, they will get shredded by the time they get fair distance. Maybe conscripts should be a bit cheaper? They are becoming more like ostruppen. Oftentimes i just see multiple groups of conscripts just die halfway in the molotov animation. And normal german micro usually gets one model killed from molotovs. Most of their damage is caused after the initial impact.

Grenades are way too effective now. One lucky throw/shot could squadwipe for a cheap amount of munis for either side.

Mosins are also crap compared every weapon, they're even outclassed by Lugers! There shouldn't be such a huge disparity in DPS between basic Ost and Russian weapons. Ost should have the advantage in accuracy, not DPS, to promote tactical positioning. Now Soviets are doomed if ANY Ost unit gets close enough to them. Skirmishes should be dependent on strategic positioning, not get to green cover first before Ost beats Soviets to it and decimates their units.

Grenades are way too effective now. One lucky throw/shot could squadwipe for a cheap amount of munis for either side.

^this

I got my 2 upgunned conscript squads instakilled by a bundle nade a little bit earlier. The stupid blizzard must have created some lag so they did not respond to micro. Or maybe there was the stupid deep snow there (damn, winter mechanics are such micro-draining bullshit). Much frustration

...psst... penals...
they'refuckingop

So op that you need at least two to beat pios?