120hz monitors

I got a $190 Samsung 1080p @ 60hz recently and there is one game so far (Borderlands 2) that screen tears like a motherfucker even when I have FPS set to cap at 60 AND vsync is enabled....I know that makes zero sense but trust me its pretty obvious and unpleasant. How prevalent are 120hz monitors, is everyone with a nice rig using them? Or will using adaptive vsync on nvidia cards fix the problem without spending a ridiculous amount of money on a better monitor?

Funny, I just yesterday received my new monitor. ASUS VG248QE (24" 144hz 1ms) and it totally changed my opinion about monitors. It is frickin amazing. Even in Windows you can see the difference but then when playing, just great. Well I would describe the difference like between HDD and SSD. So far I tried CoH2 and CS:GO.

I got the monitor from nice sale, price was 289e (probably a lot cheaper in US but EU prices...), the original price was around 349e.

My rig in general: 3570k, GTX680, 16GB RAM, 128SSD.

For die hard gamers they're great. If I didnt also dabble in photography I'd probably get one. The color accuracy and range and viewing angles (TN Panels) are usually pretty bad though so if you ever want to do any kind of editing where more accurate colors are important then I'd stay away.

About blurries

This might be monitor for someone looking for photo/fast/gaming mix. FG2421

No official 3d-vision support though...

I have the Benq XL2420T (144hz) and its amazing - now days I would go for the 27 inch version though or the new Asus with G-sync.

Just for you guys... It doesn't matter how many Hz a TFT screen has. Hz is a value of the past (like 10 years ago) where people used CRT monitors. You know, those huge white boxes with a small screen that weighted like 15kg for a 19' model.

Their cathode ray tube updated the screen with a frequency between 60 and 100 Hz. 100 was flicker free, 60 flickered a lot.

TFT screens work completely different technically and it doesn't matter if you use it at 60 Hz or above. Actually, it can make the screen performance worse. The better display quality you're experiencing is just because the hardware is "new" and is updated. Just like your games will run in a better quality simply because you have bought a new DX 11 GFX card that supports better graphic options.

Just buy the larger one with a better contrast and you'll get a better screen quality.
If you don't believe me, just use google.

I'm using a BenQ GW2760HS 27' display, it's epic.

Just for you guys... It doesn't matter how many Hz a TFT screen has. Hz is a value of the past (like 10 years ago) where people used CRT monitors. You know, those huge white boxes with a small screen that weighted like 15kg for a 19' model.

Their cathode ray tube updated the screen with a frequency between 60 and 100 Hz. 100 was flicker free, 60 flickered a lot.

TFT screens work completely different technically and it doesn't matter if you use it at 60 Hz or above. Actually, it can make the screen performance worse. The better display quality you're experiencing is just because the hardware is "new" and is updated. Just like your games will run in a better quality simply because you have bought a new DX 11 GFX card that supports better graphic options.

Just buy the larger one with a better contrast and you'll get a better screen quality.
If you don't believe me, just use google.

I'm using a BenQ GW2760HS 27' display, it's epic.

I had a 60hz screen and now vs the Benq.... its a BIG difference... but I also have the graphics card to keep up..

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

I had a 60hz screen and now vs the Benq.... its a BIG difference... but I also have the graphics card to keep up..

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

You know that fps is NOT hz, right?
30 fps means that your GFX cards sends 30 pictures per second to your screen.
60 fps means that the GFX sends 60 pictures per second to your screen.

Everything below 30 is noticed as flickering/bad performance/lagging.
Everything above 30 isn't really noticeable UNLESS you have extremely high moving actions on the screen.

Both has nothing to do with Hz rates from screens.

Again: Hz = Hertz = frequency = cathode ray tube value how often it refreshes old CRT monitors. Hertz is only important for CRT screens. These ones that were used 10 years ago:


fps = frames per second = value that determines your GFX/CPU performance ingame.

But even if your video card can produce 100 FPS, if your monitor can only do 60FPS then that is all you will get, plus tearing which is annoying. Then add on performance penalties for vsync etc and you have overall a less smooth experience on a 60Hz screen. Yes Hz originated from CRT monitors, but the concept hasent changed. You'll still see smoother gameplay if you have a high end card + higher refresh monitor.

But even if your video card can produce 100 FPS, if your monitor can only do 60FPS then that is all you will get, plus tearing which is annoying. Then add on performance penalties for vsync etc and you have overall a less smooth experience on a 60Hz screen. Yes Hz originated from CRT monitors, but the concept hasent changed. You'll still see smoother gameplay if you have a high end card + higher refresh monitor.

Still, I don't see how a so called "60Hz" screen would be undecent at showing games/movies/whatever. Simply because there's no noticeable effect if you play with 40, 50 or 100 fps. The only situation where this helps is during phases of intensed action where thosee 40 fps rigs fall below 30fps for short periods of time. The human eye can only dissolve 30 fps, everything above is just luxury mostly afaik. Of course, if you remove the frame lock a game will run faster (like double speed, or triple speed or even more, depending on the fps your rig generates), and this might look like it's running faster/smoother. But that's for different reasons..

From my knowledge blurring and stuff that disturbs the screen quality usually occurs when the screen black-white transition times are too high, resulting in parts of the screen having lower quality opposed to situations with low screen activity, which isn't really connected to vsync.

I do think that this "120 Hz" hype is just that - hyping something largely useless to warrant more sales. Just like the first screens with black-white transition times of 11ms or less, which in reality had worse values than 25+ ms screens because of unrealisitc testing settings. Of course they were advertised especially for FPS gamers who liked UT or racing games, although they were garbage.

Afterall, (usually) new hardware will always outperform old hardware, because it's (usually) technologically advanced. For screens it's less energy consumption, better contrast, better transition times, better color saturation etc. And of course if your old screen is like 2 years old you'll notice that the new one will have a better graphic quality, but that's because it's new, not because it has 120hz or whatever salesmen are trying to crap into your head..

However, I'm no expert on this area, so I may be wrong on this.

Read up more on them, Anandtech has some good articles that talk about them.

From one of their recent reviews. Note that I havent used one personally but from what I've read from those that do its a big difference in fluidity.
http://anandtech.com/show/6963/benq-xl2720t-gaming-monitor-reviewed/7

Designed for gaming use, the BenQ puts a lot of weight into its 120 Hz refresh rate. If you haven’t used a 120 Hz display before, you really need to do it in person to see the extra fluidity that it offers in comparison to 60 Hz. It isn’t something that can be captured in video, since it would be seen on a 60 Hz display, but in person it’s impossible to miss. Simple things like a mouse cursor or dragging a window are much more fluid. Playing games, animations and movement are much more fluid than with 60 Hz, and the change is almost instant to notice. Even myself, who is a casual gamer at best, can notice the difference that it makes in fluidity.

Hmm okay, I'll give it a shot.

From video production 4 rules:

How many frames per second can the human eye see?

*and what options do you have at your disposal, Youtube? Film? HFR Film? NTSC, PAL?

that is not same as: How many frames per second do I have to have to make motions look fluid?

* Sometimes in for example in sports is usefull to add white or black screens to make something pop

and that is not same as: How many frames per second makes the movie stop flickering?

* even old movie projectors have rotating disc to block the light when the frame is changing to make movement more smooth and image crispier.

and that is not same as: What is the shortest frame a human eye would notice?

* For example, old test from USAF:
The USAF, in testing their pilots for visual response time, used a simple test to see if the pilots could distinguish small changes in light. In their experiment a picture of an aircraft was flashed on a screen in a dark room at 1/220th of a second. Pilots were consistently able to "see" the afterimage as well as identify the aircraft. This simple and specific situation not only proves the ability to perceive 1 image within 1/220 of a second, but the ability to interpret higher FPS.

Basically there is no correct answer for every situation. You can try different fps in games with framerate limiter and try some horizontal panning in some fps. Trees against the sky will jump from point to point or they don't stay crisp if motion blur is added to smoothen it out.

Then check some nature document where camera is panning horizontally against some green lush farmland/savannah. Is it smooth? Is the image crisp? If you follow the intended point in picture is the movement then ok?

How much is enough for gaming that's matter of taste of course. Sometimes technically 120Hz displays are better: in 3d with shutter glass technology you can have steady 60Hz information flow per eye.

With gaming I am more pissed of by hardware related blurries, here's relink to eliminating them: blurbusters And usually higher Hz panels fare better eliminating them.

nice write ups about human vision:
First part
Second part

Still, I don't see how a so called "60Hz" screen would be undecent at showing games/movies/whatever. Simply because there's no noticeable effect if you play with 40, 50 or 100 fps. The only situation where this helps is during phases of intensed action where thosee 40 fps rigs fall below 30fps for short periods of time. The human eye can only dissolve 30 fps, everything above is just luxury mostly afaik. Of course, if you remove the frame lock a game will run faster (like double speed, or triple speed or even more, depending on the fps your rig generates), and this might look like it's running faster/smoother. But that's for different reasons..

30 fps motion does look pretty natural from a 3rd person perspective, but mouse movement gets much less fluid when you drop below 50 or so. Its almost the same effect if you suddenly decreased the polling rate on your mouse by about 20-50%, its a pretty noticeable difference and obviously detrimental in FPS games. My graphics card is just good enough to run most games over 60 fps, but its also 'mediocre' enough to drop well below 60 fps on certain games when vsync is enabled.

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

just with this test then there is BIG difference from 144 hz to 60 hz.....

if your screen cant go past 60 then look at 30hz... see the difference?

30 fps motion does look pretty natural from a 3rd person perspective, but mouse movement gets much less fluid when you drop below 50 or so. Its almost the same effect if you suddenly decreased the polling rate on your mouse by about 20-50%, its a pretty noticeable difference and obviously detrimental in FPS games. My graphics card is just good enough to run most games over 60 fps, but its also 'mediocre' enough to drop well below 60 fps on certain games when vsync is enabled.

Idk, someone told me something similar about controls and game performance when we played LoL together some time ago. With my old rig I got ~40fps, now with my new one I'm running it on higher resolution with 270+ fps. I didn't notice any difference at all. Might be that LoL is a special case or something, idk.

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

just with this test then there is BIG difference from 144 hz to 60 hz.....

if your screen cant go past 60 then look at 30hz... see the difference?

Ofc you see a difference in direct comparison more easily. It's the same as if you'd compare two similar red tones.

If you put them next to each other you'll notice that they're not the same color. But if you see one red tone on a car and the other one some time later on a wall you'll be like "oh yea, that's the same color!" although it isn't.