I fail with Germans in 3v3/4v4

Well, I am opening this thread because lately I am doing horribly with Germans in 3v3 and 4v4 (don't play other game modes currently).

It does not matter if we get dominated in early game, most often by Shocktroops, or if actually we are controlling the game most of the time just to throw the game away in late game because B4 artillery cannons or KV-2s or just the sheer mass of SU85s with their cost and range advantage are destroying all our tanks and infantry.

Games degrade to desperate capping wars when neither side can risk a big attack on each others tank force. Here the Russians are in the advantage since their tanks are all anti-infantry and Shocktroops also beat any infantry, while most German units cannot beat Shocktroops quickly enough. I even saw enemies drop burning bombs on a VP just to send three Shocktroop squads into the fire which don't seem to care much and get the cap through.

Now it would be easy to blame balance, and while I think the game has balance issues I will still blame myself though because quite obviously there are still a lot of players who are more successful with Germans than I am. I could obviously also blame my team mates (always the same people) instead, since in a 4v4 one guy can only do so much, but I notice I am struggling myself often enough so I know there is enough room for improvement.

Now I am not sure what kind of help I can request. Maybe some kind of general advice or strategies for team games would be a start.

Shocks must be the reason to most of your troubles, but the incoming patch should fix this, since shocks will be at 2 cps and could also be nerfed.

This way you should have a fair chance in the early game and transition better to the later phases of the game.

Shocks must be the reason to most of your troubles, but the incoming patch should fix this, since shocks will be at 2 cps and could also be nerfed.

This way you should have a fair chance in the early game and transition better to the later phases of the game.

We will see about that. They got moved to 1cp for a reason, you know... They are the most expensive unit in game and if nerfed they will not be desired this much anymore.... which will bring us to the beginning - hundreds of cons running across the map throwing hundreds of molotovs and at nades......and later hundreds of whining posts of how OP soviets are.... No good.

Ok, try any or all of the following as suggestions if you are not doing them already:


1) Coordinate your Commander loadouts so you are not all doing the same thing and have a variety of options.


In particular Recon gives its information to all players and information is power.

Use it to avoid armour concentrations and coordinate attacks


You can use it to set up bombing and strafing runs for other players.

Got a B4 giving you problems?

One player sends up a recon plane

Others get ready to hit it when it is found (ideally you want something that will kill it, not just decrew it - Light Artiller barrage and Stuka should do the trick)


2) Germans are excellent at holding ground once they've taken it, so team up to force the enemy off a key point and then bunker it to hold it, then move on.

Remember that bunkers are only a delaying tatic so have something ready to respond if they get attacked


3) SU85s should get driven off by infantry. 2xPGs with Shreks will kill them fast, even a Faust will get engine damage at which point you can circle or flank it

Also bear in mind that if someone has SU85 he probably does not have tanks as well apart from call ins

4) Talk to each other


Specific map strategies:

Rzhev- Summer, Lazur Factory are both excellent at locking down choke points with bunkers and teaming up elsewhere

Hill 331:
I like to send 2 to each side and ignore the middle. Once taken either flank is relatively easy to lock down with bunkers and some AT and you can go elsewhere.

Build a bunker at each of the road junction cutoffs at the fuel roads

Steppes:
3 v 3: 2 island, 1 middle first
4 v 4: 2 island, 2 middle first

Don't totally ignore the North however but in the early game that is for token forces only

I would say just keep playing. I started coh2 as a noob, and first I was losing and losing and losing, my teammates were cursing me in chat but little by little I picked it up. Now, I get more wins then loses and many times I mentor less experience players.

Just keep playing, watch replays over twitch TV or YouTube, read posts on this forums and you will be fine.

Just after I opened the thread my horrible negative streak turned into a positive streak

I did change my play style. Against Shocktroops I use now more often the Flamer Halftrack, since this seems to be the most reliable way to deal with them after all, even if the enemy has a ZiS-3.

I rely less on Machine Guns and started to use Mortar a bit more often again; now that I have learned that the Barrage ability is less accurate than the normal fire, I actually hit enemies now with it.

I also rely less on tanks and stopped using Tigers; instead I use Panthers because they are more mobile. Also using more Panzerschrecks and Pak 40s. I also start to like the Brummbär again. For AA I noticed you can use also a Scout Car with the upgrade instead of the expensive Ostwind if you lack fuel, so I may even skip T3 completely sometimes.

I changed my commanders a bit as well; I took the Jäger Infantry to have Tactical Movement mostly for Panzerschreck attacks, then of course Joint Operations for Pak43s and Recon + Light Artillery to deal with artillery, and as third I have Jäger Armor although I don't use it that much currently.

I started to use more some of the tips of van Voort, mostly I build more bunkers as he adviced which works well.

To compensate for the heavy munitions use our team will now build also some munitions caches sometimes.

So all in all things are going nicely right now, but it may be just a lucky streak as well

Glad to hear it

See? I told you, just give it some time. Your tactics will improve. Just analyze your mistakes and watch most interesting replays of recent games.

I encourage you to use often Jagger armor, it counters tanks( Elefant) and Howitzers (stuka dive bomb)!!

Thing is, I don't see that many 3v3 and 4v4 maps where it is useful. I will put it my loadout, but I tend not to use it.

Steppes, Rhzev - Yes

Lazur Factory - No

City 17 - Only on the left, and preferably in Summer

Hill 331 - No. Either flank is too narrow, and mud makes it's already impressive lack of mobility even worse

Rostov - If you are fighting in the area where a Phant is useful you are either losing already or winning already

Hill 331 No?? I use it there almost all matches and it does its task pretty good. The mud becomes your ally when you are already in your place waiting for the enemy tanks to come. They cant run backwards because of it..

As noted I prefer to try to win the Hill on the flanks and not be over concerned about the middle,so...

In 3v3 and 4v4 teamwork is everything. Choose doctrines which complement each other. The team I usually play with, we run Luftwaffe/Elite/Assault Support/Festung Support. This gives us augmented fuel and ammo, as well as more on demand, recon, 3 different airstrikes, Sector Arty, on-board Arty, a Tiger Ace and regular Tigers for our call ins. All 4 build tier 1, 3 build tier 2 (assault skips), 2 tier 3 (luft and festung skip), 2 tier 4 (elite and assault skip). Elite vets everyone as needed, luft supplies extra ammo, assault support builds trucks. For the most part, tier 2 is about stalling, since at this phase the Russians hold all the cards, having access to all their tier 1 call ins (Guards, Shocks, 120s), so your best bet is to avoid direct battle with the hordes of infantry and early vehicles Soviets can get with industry, and try to pick off whole units whenever possible. Always remember that tank for tank the Germans are better than the soviets, but Soviet numbers can overwhelm you. As before, try to isolate the Soviet tanks so they can't swarm you. Never underestimate the value of a well placed mine.