Use of T1?

Allow me to clarify: I know that the units in the Soviet T1 are quite powerful. I rarely use the scout car, but penals are great to hurt enemy infantry and their satchel charges can take out enemies not paying attention or hiding in buildings. Soviet snipers are a great unit to bleed out the enemy from afar.

However, I find myself going less and less T1 for a simple reason: Cons in combination with T2 and the doctrinal shocks are just as effective against infantry, but also allow me to be more effective against armor.

So why go T1 - T3 and backtech to T2, if you can handle everything on the field with T2 and T3? Isn't going T1 first just wasting fuel? I've used this build order before and I was able to win quite a few games, but I feel more effective and in control using just T2 and T3/T4...

I've also heared about a tactic which goes T1 and T4, but I've been hesitant to try it, since you have nothing to handle armor until the SU-85 comes out. Sure you can plant a bunch of mines and though I am a mild mines user, I don't see them as an active part of a tactic. Even if they do go off, it is often due to an explosion, rather than being triggered by German armor. Using guards instead of shocks might give me a good counter against T2 vehicles, they can not take out T3 on their own.

So that pretty much sums up why I've stopped using T1 lately and I actually miss the tier... I just don't see it as a sensible part of a tactic. Who can advice, I really want a good reason to start using them again. Am I missing something?

Edit: I just read on the forum about a tactic involving lots of snipers and guards, so that might be a solution. Any other ideas?

As someone who got tired of going T2-T3 i´ll tell you a couple of things.

With Guards Motor (T34-85s call in)

-Option 1: Check "Akosi" strat or sniper spam.
A) Con Con T1 Sniper sniper
B) Sniper sniper - Sniper/Guard/Con AT nade

You may use similar variations but it goes around doing hard mp damage, getting couple of cons for AT nade any AC/FHT or guards and waiting till you get T3485s. Mark vehicle any T3 unit to quickly gain domination of the map.
You can also fill a 120mm if mortar spam.

2- 3xCons
A) Retreat CE - ScoutCar - Penal/sniper - Guards
B) CE - 2x ScoutCar - Guard - Sniper

On both cases if you really fall behind on denying fuel to your opponent or dealing MP drain, you should get T2 for Zis or you can always backtech into T2 if you need extra AT.

Without Guard Motor
3- Any of the strats before but teching into T4 Su85 or if you are a bit more hipster and need some early AT Su76 (if you can manage to use them).

I've seen this akosi strat on the forum already and I'm definitely going to give it a shot Thanks! I'm not a big fan of scout cars though

I have the same issue. I find that I do much better with T2, T3 in most games, but I like to try out different builds and commanders so I was trying NKVD Rifle Disruption with T1-T4.

I basically thought it would be a good doctrine since you can use the scout plane to spot for SU85 and with a strong T1 you should hopefully be able to nab enough fuel to get the tank destroyers out relatively quickly (Although in practice I have a lot of trouble getting this to work).

I find that building a munitions point can help, because you can AT Grenade and mine any T3 units and just run around them to cap until you get yourself an SU-85

Well I went for the sniper/guards opening today and used T85 call-ins, so I could focus resources on T4 building, so I could build a SU-85 if I had to. Didn't have to though. It worked like a charm

I usually find the best use for T1 is as the quickest route to T4

I've found a very fast Tier 1 to be strong against Assault Grens.

Try T-1 to T-2 and use T-34/85

con->con->sniper->sniper->Guards and keep spamming them until you get 3 of them. This way you counter Inf by just moving snipers together to make grans insta retreat, at the same time you counter AC and FHT with the guards while keeping cons to harass cutoff and fuel.
After you get the points for T34/85 keep spamming them, T-2 is there to give you the maxim or Zis if you feel like you need them.
Some guy tried this tactic against me and its really annoying. Most of the time you will microing your snipers while all the other units will "support" them not to get owned by vehicles or flanking infantry.
Trust me when I tell you that the OS will be siting most of the time on a cutoff or in base because of insta retreats cause by the snipers.

Disclaimer: I haven't played in a patch.

When I last played I was exclusively a T1-T4 soviet player - made it to ~1000 not the best but far from the worst. I found AT guns extremely underwhelming for the 360 mp price tag so I never really used them.

If you are going T1-T4 it is literally a race to get T4 and an SU85 at the same time as the P4. build a couple conscripts for early capping power, maybe a penal and make sure to build 1-2 guards to handle light vehicles. If you can get a 120 mm mortar safely do so - it is a squad wiping work horse when used correctly but it can be fairly difficult to feel the right time to purchase it. I never liked using snipers much because I felt they were too flimsy for my test. If you feel confident with them they are probably better than a penal battalion but both have adequate AI capabilities in my experience.

Once you have the fuel get T4 and your first SU85 out asap. Be very careful with it. Mark target and destroy the first german vehicles if the opportunity presents. I liked to maintain my infantry composition while acquiring an additional 1-2 SU85s. 3 SU85s pretty much gives armor dominance in 1v1 - ostheer will likely have to rely on AT guns which are effective against SU85's. You should be able to effectively hold your ground with the listed infantry - 2-3 SU85's and a 120 mm mortar. Keep your infantry in cover and let your range advantage do the work. The synergy with a T1-T4 strategy is all about the range advantage - which is why the really good players that can micro snipers well opt for those instead of penal battalions.

sniper guards is abusive and you'll be quite depressed and lose countless ranks when it gets nerfed eventually, try to play without using stoopid gimmicks and you'll be a much better player

However, I find myself going less and less T1 for a simple reason: Cons in combination with T2 and the doctrinal shocks are just as effective against infantry, but also allow me to be more effective against armor.

This is why I think soviet tech tree should be changed. It is very restrictive. If I want to go T1 then I have to have something from commander that lets me deal with light vehicles. And if that thing cant deal with heavy vehicle (like IS-2) then I have to go T4 or go to T3 and then back tech to T2 which is very inefficient.

I am perfectly fine with having to Choose between T3 or T4, the problem for me is that if I went for T1 the choice is very skewed.

In my perfect world soviet T1 and T2 would both be cheaper in fuel and that fuel cost would be transfered to T3 and T4. This way Soviet could get both lower tears, filling in the gaps.

Lets say make both T1 and T2 cheaper by 20 fuel and make T3 and T4 cost 30 fuel more.