Pricing Balance

This post is about non doctrinal Price balance. I think before relic starts balancing doctrines we need to start with non-doctrinal parts of the game. Specifically in this post unit pricing

First off here's a list of all the units across both factions along with their upgrades and abilities. Everything is organzied in order of which you can get them based off of the building and upgrade needed before hand to get to it. Abilities are under each underlined unit.

Germans

Primary Building

Pioneer Squad - 200mp
flamer thrower - 60 mu
Land Mines - 60mu
hazard upgrade - 30mu
Anti-inf mines - 80mu

Infanterie Kompanie - 80mp 10 F

Grenadier Squad - 240mp (LMG upgrade - 60mu)
Rifle nade - 25 mu
Panzerfaust - 25mu

MG42 Squad - 240mp
Incendiary armor piercing rounds - 15mu

Sniper - 360mp
Incendiary round - 45 mu

Mortar - 240mp

Battle Phase 1 - 200mp 25 F

Leichte Mechanized Kompanie - 120mp 15 F

Assault Grens - 360mp (panzer shrek upgrade - 120mu (60mu x2))
Bundle nade - 45 mu

Pak AT Gun - 320mp
Target Weak point - 40mu

Scout car - 80 mp 25 F (70mu upgrade)

Half track - 120 mp 30 F (120mu Flamethrower upgrade (60mu x2))
Reigel Mine - 60mu (doctrinal)

Battle Phase 2 - 200mp 35 F

Support Armor Korps - 160mp 25 F

Stug III - 280 mp 95 F (35 mu mg upgrade)
Target Weak Point - 30mu

Ostwind - 320mp 115 F
Blitzkrieg - 30mu

Panzer 4 - 320mp 115 F (30mu MG upgrade)
Blitzkrieg - 30mu

Battle Phase 3 - 200mp 50 F

Heavy Panzer Korps - 160mp 30 F

Brummbar - 560mp 140 F (30mu MG upgrade)
Target Weak Point - 35mu

Panther - 520mp 145 F (30mu MGupgrade)
Blitzkrieg - 30 mu

Panzer werfer - 360mp 85F

Bunker - 150mp
MG42 fortification- 60mu
Medic structure - 60mu
Reinforce structure- 60mu

Soviets

Primary Building

Conscript Squad - 240mp
Trip wire - 10mu
Molotov - 15mu
antitank nade - 25mu

Pioneers - 240mp (flamethrower upgrade - 60mu)
Mines - 30mu
Democharge - 90mu

Molotov upgrade - 125mp 25 fuel

anti tank nade upgrade - 125mp 25 fuel

Medic upgrade - 250mp

Special Rifle command Building - 200mp 40 fuel

Penal Squad - 360mp (Flame upgarde 60mu)
Stachel charge - 45mu

Sniper - 360mp
Flare - 60mu

M3 Scout Car - 80mp 20 F
Overdrive - Free

Support Weapon building - 240mp 50fuel

MG - 240mp
sprint ability - 10mu

Zis-3 Anti tank gun - 320 mp
Tracking - 20mu
arty ability - 60 mu

Mortar - 240mp

Tankoviy Battalion command Building - 275mp 90 F

T70 - 160mp 55F
Repair ability - 60mu
Capture mode - Free
Recon mode - Free

T34 -280mp 85F
Ram ability - Free
Capture Mode - Free

M5 HT - 120mp 30F (90mu quad upgrade)

Mechanized Armor Building - 275mp 90 F

Su-76 - 160mp 55F
Tracking - 20mu
Arty ability - Free

Su-85 - 320mp 115F
Tracking - 20mu

Katusha - 320 mp 85F
Concentrated barrage ability - 60 mu


Part 2 of the post.


Some current pricing overlap (EVERYTHING NON DOCTRINAL, unless stated otherwise)

Some of these prices are fine such as flame thrower upgrade on pioneers, but others such as panzer shreks and the HT upgrade, sniper Flare, and especially all the bunker upgardes. They are all something to really look at respectively, because they seem as if many were just slapped into place without much thought. Could this because bunker upgrades for Germans in COH 1 were all the same? Maybe I don't know, but this is a different game with many different units, maps and in general over all game play. Many of these prices just don't seem to really reflect the usefulness of the cost. Such as the sniper flare for soviet sniper. Is it really worth 60mu just to have the location revealed temporarily?

The main point of this top part of the post is to show how many abilities/upgrades cost the same across both factions.

Germans

Pioneer Squad - 200mp (flamer thrower - 60 mu)
Land Mines - 60mu

Grenadier Squad - 240mp (LMG upgrade - 60mu)

Assault Grens - 360mp (panzer shrek upgrade - 120mu (60mu x2))

Half track - 120 mp 30 F (120mu Flamethrower upgrade (60mu x2))
Reigel Mine - 60mu (doctrinal)

Bunker - 150mp
MG42 fortification- 60mu
Medic structure - 60mu
Reinforce structure- 60mu

Soviets

Pioneers - 240mp (flamethrower upgrade - 60 mu)

Penal Squad - 360mp (Flame upgarde 60mu)

Sniper - 360 mp (Flare 60mu)

Zis-3 Anti tank gun - 320 mp (arty ability 60 mu)

T70 - 160mp 55F (Repair ability 60 mu)

Katusha - 320 mp 85F (concentrated barrage ability - 60 mu)

Comparisons

These 3 tanks I feel like is a prefect example of carefully thought out price balance. They all have the same ability yet they are priced differently due to the type of unit its tied to. Granted the ability on the pak is practically broken.

Stug III - 280 mp 95 F (35 mu mg upgrade)
Target Weak Point - 30mu

Brummbar - 560mp 140 F (30 mu mg upgrade)
Target Weak Point - 35mu

Pak AT Gun - 320mp
Target Weak point - 40mu



I find these 2 Units to be priced pretty much Identically strange to me. Their roles can differ greatly and the cost of their abilties is something to be questioned. Sure the countdown times are much different once thrown, but the stachel is still hard to even dodge in many situations and if you arent paying attention well forget whatever you had because will surely be completely wiped out. The flame upgrade could be something to look at especially since its placed on a stronger squad vs the regular pioneer and if we are to change it in a similar way the units in the above comparison were priced.

I take these 2 units were intended as similar roles or maybe I'm wrong at this point when looking at all the non toctrinal units they seem to have very similar roles so i guess it would make sense for their pricing similarity.

Penal Squad - 360mp (Flame upgarde 60mu)
Stachel charge - 45mu

Assault Grens - 360mp (panzer shrek upgrade - 120mu (60mu x2))
Bundle nade - 45 mu



These 2 Units are cool for their roles. The only thing I question is why is the arty ability Free for one and once again we find the 60mu cost for the other? Is it the fuel cost and the command building upgrade cost and time to get to that unit? The MP cost is 50% less. Also another point to look at is why did Relic price the Zis 3 and the Pak exactly the same when they have different abilities and at the same-time are fighting completely different units in game.

Zis-3 Anti tank gun - 320 mp
Tracking - 20mu
Arty ability - 60 mu

Su-76 - 160mp 55F
Tracking - 20mu
Arty ability - Free



This comparison for me is just a no-brainer although maybe not, so lets discuss these 2. The Panzer 4 has been stated in other forums as the best all around multi role tank. I can agree on that since it counters most units on the battlefield. The ostwind on the other hand is primarily only anti inf or anti light armor. So the question is why would the ostwind cost exactly the same as a Panzer 4? Its role isn't the same and on the battlefield the Panzer 4 is just better due to its multirole capabilities. It doesn't make much sense to me to have them priced the same. Could the price similarity reflect its anti-air capabilities rendering soviet airstrikes practically useless if you have an Ostwind on field?

Ostwind - 320mp 115 F
Blitzkrieg - 30mu

Panzer 4 - 320mp 115 F (30mu MG upgrade)
Blitzkrieg - 30mu



So these units seem at first glance somewhat thought out, because their prices are different in all aspects outside of the flamethrower. My question is the land mine price difference. Is there really much of difference between the 2 to have a 50% difference? One can be triggered by inf and tanks where the other is just tanks. I take it the one with tanks does more damage, but honestly I just need help understand these 2 in general.

Pioneer German - 240mp (flamethrower upgrade - 60 mu)
Land Mines - 30mu
DemoCharge - 90mu

Pioneer Soviet - 200mp (flamer thrower - 60 mu)
Land Mines - 60mu
Anti-inf Mines- 80mu




Regarding man power units/structures will either cost 80, 120, 160, 200, 240, 280, 320, 360, 520, 560, or 720
Regarding Munitions upgrades/abilities will either cost 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 60, 80, 90, 120, 160, 200, 240 (high costs primarily doctrinal abilities)

Let me know what everyone else thinks on this aspect of the game. Again keep in mind again this is non doctrinal balance. I think before relic starts balancing doctrines we need to start with non-doctrinal parts of the game.

I'm sure if added in doctine unit/ability/upgrade prices we would have more over lapping pricing.

Thoughts on this please.

So if I understand this right, around half of the wall of text post is about the fact that Relic doesn't seem to have put much thought behind the cost of several items and thus not really balanced them, but rather used an arbitrary placeholder value of for example 60 munition? If so then this seems true to me.

So if I understand this right, around half of the wall of text post is about the fact that Relic doesn't seem to have put much thought behind the cost of several items and thus not really balanced them, but rather used an arbitrary placeholder value of for example 60 munition? If so then this seems true to me.

Yeah the 60 munition cost is a prime example. Its to show how everything is priced and see how prices could be tweaked or adjusted to hopefully best fit the game. Technically speaking if worked at properly stats would never need to be changed, just prices to reflect how fast a unit comes out or how many you are able to field in a quick process.

Example oh T70 is super OP? Raise the cost. Oh you raised it to much lower it again a little. Eventually you'll find that core price that really makes it balanced in game. rather than change the price, speed, rate of fire, armor, negative/positive values etc.

This is my out look at least on balance. To much stat changes seem to make things more complicated.

My observations seem to indicate certain stats have a weighted cost. It appears that anti infantry abilitiy is wieghted very high on thid list. Which is why an ostwind costs the same as a p4 and an is2 more than a tiger even thouhh the tiger has more hps and at. But this only seems to apply to armor or pgrens would cost more than penals and guards. On infantry i believe relic likes to increase the cost relative to the timing. I.e. Penals cost the same as AI pgrens because they come out sooner.