In defense of Relic

So I am seeing a lot of complaints about the new Steam version, and it isn't wrong for us to be upset and disappointed that many parts of it now work worse than prior to the patch. But there are a lot of things I am seeing that just aren't fair.

Blaming Relic for the loss of functionality when "New Steam Version" was created:
Please just stop with this. Yes, the new version isn't nearly as good as the prior Relic servers, but they were put in place fast when Relic was going to lose their servers, and with as much functionality and capability as they could handle. The game was 6 years old and SEGA had no legal obligation to keep it going.

Accusing Relic that they are idiots to have broken the game with the new patch:
No programmer updates a patch with something they knew was inferior. But you can't tell what will happen when 2,000 users use software until, well, 2,000 users use the software. And people stopped going on the beta server because there weren't any other people on the beta server.

The real proof will be if they can quickly fix the current version, or at least continuously fix portions of it and add more and more functionality. Fix automatch, fix the game lobby. Or, failing that, reinstall the old version, and quickly.

They aren't incompetent, and there was no nefarious plan. It is just that the real world doesn't always cooperate with our plans. Let's see what happens from here, and if there isn't a fast fix, THEN we can start to blame them.

Well AvNY you are right but Relic is one of the worst Game company ever. When they try to fix anything they creating new Buggs. When they wanna balance something they failing.

Its okay that the Steam version wasn't working that well. They were totally concentrate on CoH2. But they created the beta which were working great and now they failed again. Always the same Story...

They will fix it maybe in 1 month cause they don't care about CoH1, the probably hating CoH1 cause more players play it than CoH2. Also they just losing money on CoH1

Issue is with the Steam servers.

The first game i played with new retail worked just fine. After that nothing worked, so its the servers.

My point is some patience. Should this have happened? no. But I don't expect they thought it would happen. The question is where do they go from here.

Do they hate COH1? I don't think so. I do think they are disappointed that it is still so popular relative to CoH2, but that is the fault of COH2, not 1. And I HOPE they aren't so stupid as to think that finally killing 1 will mean all buy and move to 2.

They do still generate $'s off of 1, and I am guessing they are upset that that cash flow isn't competely free of having to write another patch. Let's hope they fix this patch (whether it is Steams fault or not, fixing it requires cooperation).

I do still think that the kernel of a future CoH3 that might come in a few years lies in 1 and not 2.

Very well said AvNY

lets hope this was their way of doing a larger scale beta since very few were testing the beta patch.

if they quickly update this now that several hundred have tried, we're all better for it.

One can dream : )

If not, they go down in history as the people who sabotaged their best game.

What can you do? I work for a big company and I can tell you, most of the time the people doing the work know what they're doing and want to do well, but it's the leaders who have no clue. I've seen those guys streaming and what not and I know they want to do well. Lets just hope they pull it together.

lets hope this was their way of doing a larger scale beta since very few were testing the beta patch.

if they quickly update this now that several hundred have tried, we're all better for it.

One can dream : )

If not, they go down in history as the people who sabotaged their best game.

What can you do? I work for a big company and I can tell you, most of the time the people doing the work know what they're doing and want to do well, but it's the leaders who have no clue. I've seen those guys streaming and what not and I know they want to do well. Lets just hope they pull it together.

As you said, it doesn`t entirely depends on them as there are higher ups who decide.
But in fact as a coder no matter how many times you try to fix 1 issue there will always be another issue, this is inevitable. I know that because I work in a software development company and I see this every day. It doesn`t mean they are bad at what they do, it means that the code is so fcking huge that you will obviously mess something up somewhere without even realizing it.

No matter if players/end users hate the company they are still coming back and use the product just because there is nothing better for them at the moment.

P.S: Relic knows that and that is why they don`t care about the shit thrown at them.
Cause the game is old and doesn`t provide a big revenue to the company any more, but they still work on it slowly slowly because there is a playerbase. They are not focused on it 100% so I don`t get why people complain about it. You bought the game at least 6 years ago, didn`t you get your moneys worth up to now? If you did then don`t complain and enjoy the fact that the game is still out there allowing you to play it. Btw wehram this comment is not directed to you, I hope you realize this.

Haven't you played enough chess? Lets cut the whole stuff with the king, queen and stuff. Only Peasants from now on or lets throw it away.

I can´t belive it. I just can´t belive it. What did Relic just do? And even more important: why.. why..?

The same bugy beta patch went live.. thats just.. i mean.. there was a beta.. this bugs were reported.. Relic fixed none of them.. . So, this beta was a big fake at the end.

And i believed them.. . I should have known better. My mistake i guess.

But you can't tell what will happen when 2,000 users use software until, well, 2,000 users use the software. And people stopped going on the beta server because there weren't any other people on the beta server.

Okay, i agree. You can´t fix unreported bugs.

So let´s talk about the bugs Relic knows about. Bugs who were reported more then once, so we can assume Relic knows they exists and still, they don´t get fixed. Funny, isn´t it?

There was got some kind of beta, which is great. What should have happen: Relic collects all the feedback, fix the bugs and afterwards the patch goes live. Without the reported bugs. And what happened instead? The new Patch is simply the last version of the Beta without any changes. There still are many bugs. Reported bugs, by the way.

At the and end its the old story and CoH1 is know maybe in a even worserer state then it was before this "patch".

Great ob, well done Relic.

If you can´t do it right, don´t try it.

I don`t get why people complain about it.

Well of course nobody who likes CoH1 will every be happy if you tell them "Thats it, we won´t do another patch". The most people where ok with 2.602. Not perfect but it was okay. Then there was this Steam bullshit. And it was bullshit, Relic admited it. Thats why thes did this "patch". And if you tell the people Hey, we are working on a patch, then you create expectations. And of course, once more, they failed in meetinf the expectations. And thats what makes me angry.

They should have just just the servers down, just bury the game let it rest in peace. Sure everyone who loves CoH1 would be angry but better a short time of pain then a pain without end.

Do you know why they did not shut down the servers? Simple, they still sale CoH1. They sale a broken piece of software and they earn money with it. As long as you sell a product a customer can expect support for this software.

It's perhaps worth pointing out that the work is probably being done by smoking gun, a company formed by some members of the original coh1 dev team. Certainly the original steam port was contracted out to them.

I expect there is a real rush to try and have it ready for the holiday break so they likely to try and hot fix this.

Some people here do need a sense of perspective on this - the game might be still on sale but it costs peanuts and has a single player element easily worth the admission price. Continued multiplayer support is just a bonus so don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

I guess the patience of the community is so low right now, after being disappointent again and again, that any further delay relic will be hold solely responsible for.

I don´t think the rage is only because of the failed patches, but that relic is not present. Most of the time you have no clue whats going on and what relic´s plans are. A community manager should be here and talk to the community. You feel left alone to the arbitrariness of devs, you can´t talk to.
Just a simple sentence like "Sorry for the inconvenience, we will work on that problem", would calm down alot of people.

In defense of relic, the first game i played with this patch was perfect for me. I guess the patch was fine on release, but something screwed it up. If the steam servers are to blame i have not enough insight.

Well of course nobody who likes CoH1 will every be happy if you tell them "Thats it, we won´t do another patch". The most people where ok with 2.602. Not perfect but it was okay. Then there was this Steam bullshit. And it was bullshit, Relic admited it. Thats why thes did this "patch". And if you tell the people Hey, we are working on a patch, then you create expectations. And of course, once more, they failed in meetinf the expectations. And thats what makes me angry.

They should have just just the servers down, just bury the game let it rest in peace. Sure everyone who loves CoH1 would be angry but better a short time of pain then a pain without end.

Do you know why they did not shut down the servers? Simple, they still sale CoH1. They sale a broken piece of software and they earn money with it. As long as you sell a product a customer can expect support for this software.

You completely ignored everything else I stated in that post. I know the game still sells. But do you seriously believe that $5 is enough to support the game? Wtf do you think this is? A charity? I bought the retail version 3 years ago for 10 euro.... So be glad the game still have servers and allow you somehow to play the game.... I dont hate VCoH it was one of my favorite games at its time.
About the way Relic does stuff and informs the players about the patch 1 day before its launch is hilarious, I agree.

^^^

I agree. I made my money back on this game long time ago. It's a shame because it's a great game and deserves better, but it is the way of the P&L.

I was one of the few who didn't think the Steam version was so bad. Sure there was the drop hack issue and the ranks were messed up, but I played over 1000 games no problems.

Now we have a completely broken game. So, hope all the complainers are happy.

I really hope Relic fixes this mess or if it's just a Steam issue, whatever. But like I said before, thanks for the memories.

@Fanatic - I am not sure if you are aware, but a number of the Beta testers begged Relic to patch the current Beta to the full board because they felt it was much more stable than the current Steam version even with the bugs it still had. And the Beta had greater lobby and leaderboard functionality. I don't know if this was the case as I didn't play Beta.

If that was what the people who lived and played with the beta believed then it isn't a surprise Relic used it as a patch. That it is working out worse is a software problem either with Relic or Steam but I am sure something unforeseen. The proof isn't in getting it to work perfectly the first time you go live, that kind of thing CAN NOT be promised by any developer. The true test will be how they manage the problem right now.

They have 4 basic options -
1) Don't fix it. I think this is disastrous for the community and harms them as a company with regards to any future releases and sales. It does not mean an end to cash flow, CoH1 is still worth $4.99 for the single player alone (certainly it was for me, I didn't even know of the multiplayer community when I bought it). But they won't be able to use the franchise name in the future. Every reviewer will mention such a step in reviews of future products.

2) Revert to the prior New Steam version, either until a patch comes or forever. (Not as awful as above, but not great).

3) Fix this patch slowly. This is almost as "good" as 2. It fixes some of the problems but the longer it takes the more goodwill they lose.

4) Fix it quickly. This is actually probably at least some investment. it will go a very long way to healing their reputation with their fans as a somewhat flawed patch with much more functionality over the old New Steam version, with reset non-hacker stats, would be very very welcome in the community. That said, we don't know the source of the flaws or how long/how much they will take to fix.

I think option 4 is the best choice and I hope they put their effort on it. I think that their intentions are good but this last patch made the version almost unusable for multiplayer and poses grave risk to the franchise and particularly to CoH1, a product that certainly is worth something even as a business.

But if you can't do that, implement option 2 as fast as possible. before people find something else and move on, because they you will lose them forever.

Reading some responses here, makes me wonder if some of you live in a parallel universe. General CH states:

I don´t think the rage is only because of the failed patches, but that relic is not present. Most of the time you have no clue whats going on and what relic´s plans are. A community manager should be here and talk to the community. You feel left alone to the arbitrariness of devs, you can´t talk to.

Are you aware that Relic (via Noun and Breaking Brad) have been hosting several explanatory programmes on Twitch recently - "Throwback Thursday"?

Are you aware that Noun was guesting on a recent SNF?

Are you aware that PQumsieh was on Twitch TV for some explanatory vids, and was a guest only last Sunday on SNF?

Have you not seen the threads where a Relic icon appears,denoting a dev contribution?

People contribute a lot in chat on those programmes-and the devs ask for feedback

Would you be so kind and list everything regarding the recent problem mentioned during these shows, you mentioned above, here?

The game was 6 years old and SEGA had no legal obligation to keep it going.

So we owe them a favour, is that what you mean? "Come on, lets cut them some slack!"

Talking legal obligations, I doubt that they ever had any. I don't know if there is some limitation period for which they must support their game, is there? But I'm a customer and I don't care. Don't forget that CoH is being sold now, and money is being asked for it.

Anyway, since when CoH players has such low standards? What about appraciation and other kind of obligations to such a loyal and dedicated community? Only if Relic or Sega don't value that, then let them have no obligations and may CoH be played by compstompers only. If name and image is not important for a games-developing company, what is? Loyal customers should be an asset for small and poor company that they are described as.

I say, we clearly express what we want from coh. And if it's not there, we bash them as we like. Don't get hooked by the idea that we've already got enough for what we paid and that whatever decision they take now is fine with us. Past CoH experience has been great, but what matters is present and future. If they can't keep up to certain standard, I'll think of them as amateurs, and my comments concerning Relic or Sega will be only negative.

The game was 6 years old and SEGA had no legal obligation to keep it going.
lol they are still selling it?
If they stop selling it then you are right.

Anyone buy today or in past few months coh by paying 6-7$, will get broken product which doesn't have online functionality. Its sega responsibility if they are selling product they should support it online LEGALLY otherwise anyone can download it from torrent to play single player campaign.

I don't know coding and all that jazz.
However I don't get how Tommy, Kolaris and 12ocky can fix bugs, which relic has never been bothered to do (like the stag mg gunner or m10 mis-fire) and attempt to balance the game through a mod in seemingly very little time, yet Relic can't seem to even patch a game successfully.. and they made it!!
I'm sure I'm missing something here however as otherwise its just ridiculous...
In the words of a ridiculous Australian racist politician... 'please explain?'