After playing some games with and against early shocktroops I feel that they come out a tad too early at 1CP. I think moving them to 2CP would fit the gamplay better.
What do you guys think?
Shocktroops at 1CP
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17 Dec 2013, 11:14 AM
#1
Posts: 747
17 Dec 2013, 11:23 AM
#2
1 
Posts: 172
Even though I have been playing Soviet recently and I am guilty of abusing early shock troops I would have to agree with you
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17 Dec 2013, 11:27 AM
#3
Posts: 110
To be honest i think 1cp is perfectly fine, especially at the current 440 manpower cost.
Provides diversity for the Russian player, rather then the usual pre patch 5-6 conscript opening.
That said, there's plenty of counters, PG's can hold there own, half-track with flame Upgrade, perhaps scout car also (But i wouldn't recommend that)
MG42's with the 10% increased suppression can really lock down a Shock troop squad now also, So there is many things you can do. Plenty of counters, i wouldn't say they come out too early, or that they're "OP"
Provides diversity for the Russian player, rather then the usual pre patch 5-6 conscript opening.
That said, there's plenty of counters, PG's can hold there own, half-track with flame Upgrade, perhaps scout car also (But i wouldn't recommend that)
MG42's with the 10% increased suppression can really lock down a Shock troop squad now also, So there is many things you can do. Plenty of counters, i wouldn't say they come out too early, or that they're "OP"
17 Dec 2013, 11:29 AM
#4
Posts: 110
P.S Not saying it's easy, But whats the fun in it if its easy?
Its a strategical game after all, the DEVS and balance designers wouldn't make an UN-counterable unit now would they?
absolutely everything has a counter.
Lets be honest, all around, both the factions are pretty balanced at the moment, just look at the recent SNF for reference.
Its a strategical game after all, the DEVS and balance designers wouldn't make an UN-counterable unit now would they?
absolutely everything has a counter.
Lets be honest, all around, both the factions are pretty balanced at the moment, just look at the recent SNF for reference.
17 Dec 2013, 11:53 AM
#5
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedActually the SNF series shows a pretty huge and consistent Sov advantage.
As to early Shocks, I recommend early FHT and a Sniper.
FHT is mobile enough to move to where the Shocks are as well as enabling onfield reinforce for your Grens so that you can maintain atleast some persistent onfield presence and hence map control, and the Sniper can start punishing MP early.
221s are a no, Shocks can tear them up with small arms.
PGrens lose to Shocks, categorically. As do AssGrens.
G43s and LMGs are ineffective due to Shock high armor deflect.
As to early Shocks, I recommend early FHT and a Sniper.
FHT is mobile enough to move to where the Shocks are as well as enabling onfield reinforce for your Grens so that you can maintain atleast some persistent onfield presence and hence map control, and the Sniper can start punishing MP early.
221s are a no, Shocks can tear them up with small arms.
PGrens lose to Shocks, categorically. As do AssGrens.
G43s and LMGs are ineffective due to Shock high armor deflect.
17 Dec 2013, 12:12 PM
#6
Posts: 1003
G43s and LMGs are ineffective due to Shock high armor deflect.
G43 and LMG are very effective. G43 is the best weapon upgrade in game.
Stay in cover and move only, if enemy throw grenade. Use MG42 as support.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
17 Dec 2013, 12:17 PM
#7
Posts: 22
Shock Troopers at 1 CP is fine and good for diversity at this stage, I think. If anything it promotes diversity in gameplay, MG42s, Snipers and Scout Cars are all cost effective counters to them and since they come at the hefty price of 440 MP it is going to impact Soviet map control quite heavily. Even if they then go T1 to counter potential sniper play you've locked them down to (usually) no T2. That in turn means you won't have to worry about AT guns for your tank play later, in addition to the fact that they won't have Guards.
17 Dec 2013, 12:44 PM
#8
Posts: 747
I'm not saying they are op or that I don't know how to deal with them.
They somehow accelerate the tech race because the german player is pretty much forced to go t2 asap.
They somehow accelerate the tech race because the german player is pretty much forced to go t2 asap.
17 Dec 2013, 12:44 PM
#9
Posts: 32
no no these need to be changed to 2 points. Suggesting a fht for a counter isnt a good option when you have to pay 120 ammo just to counter something thats dumb. Pgrens are only good 1v1 if they are veted and the shock troops arnt. In my soviet builds i have been using since the patch i can have a shock troop as my 3rd unit built
Also last night i played a 3v3 against a team where one was industry and the others where shock troop doctrines so early anti inf and early armor killed us
Also last night i played a 3v3 against a team where one was industry and the others where shock troop doctrines so early anti inf and early armor killed us
17 Dec 2013, 12:52 PM
#10
Posts: 110
As i stated above, 221's aren't effective.
@Nullist, i disagree with your comment with the sov advantage in SNF, majority of the games were 1-0 2-0
Meaning both factions were both winning at equal pace, maybe only marking a small percentage in sov winning overall.
You can't just say that's balance, player skill is also a factor, which people seem to forget, not everything comes down to numerological differences or balance.
all I'm stating is that the game is overall balanced at the moment.
@Nullist, i disagree with your comment with the sov advantage in SNF, majority of the games were 1-0 2-0
Meaning both factions were both winning at equal pace, maybe only marking a small percentage in sov winning overall.
You can't just say that's balance, player skill is also a factor, which people seem to forget, not everything comes down to numerological differences or balance.
all I'm stating is that the game is overall balanced at the moment.
17 Dec 2013, 12:54 PM
#11
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedG43 and LMG are very effective. G43 is the best weapon upgrade in game.
G43 and LMG are effective vs 1 armor (Cons/CE/Penals), less against 1.5 armor (Guard) and even less vs 2.25 armor (Shocks).
Are you sure you understand how infantry armor works?
If you have questions, please feel free to ask.
Meaning both factions were both winning at equal pace, maybe only marking a small percentage in sov winning overall.
The majority of games in SNF have been won by Sov. That much is clear already, and obvious. The actual figure will have to wait till someone who has hopefully kept track can report the final result of Ost/Sov W/L.
17 Dec 2013, 12:57 PM
#12
Posts: 87
To be honest i think 1cp is perfectly fine, especially at the current 440 manpower cost.
Provides diversity for the Russian player, rather then the usual pre patch 5-6 conscript opening.
That said, there's plenty of counters, PG's can hold there own, half-track with flame Upgrade, perhaps scout car also (But i wouldn't recommend that)
MG42's with the 10% increased suppression can really lock down a Shock troop squad now also, So there is many things you can do. Plenty of counters, i wouldn't say they come out too early, or that they're "OP"
1."there's plenty of counters, PG's can hold there own, half-track with flame Upgrade, perhaps scout car also" until you tech and get those you pretty much lost the game ..
2. "MG42's with the 10% increased suppression can really lock down a Shock troop squad now also" . shocks have smoke nades making mg's useless + a horde of conscripts on the flanks (wich is pretty much guaranteed) bye MG , grens obliterated by shocks.. KV8 GG ..
in conclusion none of your "counters" are viable in practice .. experienced this myself and seen some really good players getting owned by shit ..
17 Dec 2013, 13:01 PM
#13
Posts: 333
Volo I dont know which SNF you have been watching but Sovs are winning that by a mile.
Although I know u as a good player, and I see youre high ranked with both factions I do think you might have been playing Soviets a bit too much lately, and are therefore not fully objective here. It is, to me anyway, kind of obvious that 1 cp shocks is too early and extremely hard to counter for the germans.
Youre almost forced to get a FHT to counter them, meaning youre left with no munitions for shrecks and therefore wide open to a T70/T34 rush. They should come at 2 cps instead of 1 imo.
Although I know u as a good player, and I see youre high ranked with both factions I do think you might have been playing Soviets a bit too much lately, and are therefore not fully objective here. It is, to me anyway, kind of obvious that 1 cp shocks is too early and extremely hard to counter for the germans.
Youre almost forced to get a FHT to counter them, meaning youre left with no munitions for shrecks and therefore wide open to a T70/T34 rush. They should come at 2 cps instead of 1 imo.
17 Dec 2013, 13:03 PM
#14
Posts: 110
@Adrian23, Once again, depends whose practicing it, i can counter it with the counters i listed above, maybe your not executing your strategy properly, or maybe your micro's not up to scratch and unable to pull it off?
Maybe your fighting battles you can;t win, and fail to retreat, and you get eaten alive, maybe you retreat to late and you get eaten alive.
Your MG's get obliterated you say? and flanked?
Well you may be positioning it in a "Not so" good area and UN-supported.
Maybe in conclusion you can't pull it off in practice, maybe other's can, who knows?
maybe you just need more practice.
Maybe your fighting battles you can;t win, and fail to retreat, and you get eaten alive, maybe you retreat to late and you get eaten alive.
Your MG's get obliterated you say? and flanked?
Well you may be positioning it in a "Not so" good area and UN-supported.
Maybe in conclusion you can't pull it off in practice, maybe other's can, who knows?
maybe you just need more practice.
17 Dec 2013, 13:09 PM
#15
Posts: 32
volo its not a learn to play issue if you lose your shock troops to those counters im pretty sure its you that need to learn how to play
17 Dec 2013, 13:11 PM
#16
Posts: 110
Zimmo, i play both German and soviets, I'm Speaking from german prospective, so your comment is void
17 Dec 2013, 13:13 PM
#17
Posts: 32
lol all your posts are void suggest soft counters that dont work that early
17 Dec 2013, 13:15 PM
#18
Posts: 110
Im not here looking for an argument, I'm simply stating counters that work for me, not saying they work 100% but they work.
Just sharing my experiences against early shock troops and how they can be countered
Just sharing my experiences against early shock troops and how they can be countered
17 Dec 2013, 13:19 PM
#19
Posts: 32
oh but you rather be a troll and provoke people into arguements saying peoples micro isnt up too scratch just share your worthless experiences and thats it
do you play 1v1 or do you rely on double teaming shock troops with them counters for a win
do you play 1v1 or do you rely on double teaming shock troops with them counters for a win
17 Dec 2013, 13:19 PM
#20
Posts: 333
Volo a couple of things here:
- Youre saying balance is good now, and that we can look at SNF for an example. This is false, cause SNF is heavily dominated by Soviets.
- If I recall correctly you're actively (ab)using the 1cp Shocks in your Soviet 1v1 play. Makes it sound kind of fishy to have you come here saying it's not unbalanced at all.
- True, you're playing both factions. You have, however, played a LOT more games as Soviets. Especially recently this seems your faction of choice.
- The counters you propose are rubbish: FHT means no shrecks means "Hello T70s!", MG42 can quite easily be avoided, especially with the smoke nades, Scout Car gets eaten alive by shocks as we all know, and Pgrens definitely can not hold their own against them.
All in all you seem a little biased.
- Youre saying balance is good now, and that we can look at SNF for an example. This is false, cause SNF is heavily dominated by Soviets.
- If I recall correctly you're actively (ab)using the 1cp Shocks in your Soviet 1v1 play. Makes it sound kind of fishy to have you come here saying it's not unbalanced at all.
- True, you're playing both factions. You have, however, played a LOT more games as Soviets. Especially recently this seems your faction of choice.
- The counters you propose are rubbish: FHT means no shrecks means "Hello T70s!", MG42 can quite easily be avoided, especially with the smoke nades, Scout Car gets eaten alive by shocks as we all know, and Pgrens definitely can not hold their own against them.
All in all you seem a little biased.
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