German Light Vehicles in Current Meta

With the recent CP rework, Guards are deployed earlier on the field, hence providing Soviets with a pretty hard counter to scout cars and halftracks in the early game. While before, scout cars could add an interesting flavour to German T2, and reward good micro while doing so, now I fear that Guard presence will negate this unit's usefulness in the early game. Will it be rendered useless?

True, guards are a doctrinal unit, and scout cars may be saved for the later parts of the game with diligent care, but do you feel that its window has further been narrowed with such a counter coming much earlier?

And what about the German Flame HT? How does it currently sit in the game? I always have a commander with guards on standby just in case my opponent goes for Flame HT rush, but I haven't yet experienced just how quick Guards come on the field in relation to the fast Flaming HT.

Scout cars are good, not excellent at what they do, until they get vet. Learn to screen with infantry. The problem is, most german players have relied upon using one unit at a time for too long, now you gotta work for every kill, suddenly its all too hard.

Flametrack is still good.

It used to be so that a flamer half-track could be on the field well before guards could. Now this is impossible. And it's a good change in my book. Guards alone, available in only a third of all commanders, are a soft counter at best, and require conscripts with AT nades to actually kill the flamer half-track.

Shock troops are now also available at 1CP, so you can now build the flamer half-track as a response to seeing shock troops. So you can now build it as a responsive unit, rather than a unit to take the initiative with.

Dishka was delayed so te soviets have one less ati-vehicle option for a while.

As for the guards I don't know if it's ging to be a problem. I find that most of my vehicles die to AT-nades+small arms fire anyway.

Soviets can field a ZIS gun (non-doctrinal) and have AT nades about the same time the FHT comes on the field. Also mines are good soft counters which can delay the FHT even further. I don't usually even bother with guards, since they confine you to certain commanders and are only a soft counter for a few units.

So I would say that the CP change for guards should not affect significantly the role of German light vehicles in the current meta.

If soviets choose guards, then you not meat shock troops. Adapt on oponent commander.

Mostly true but you don't seem to take into consideration that Grens have Faust right away as well? And doesn't also Ostruppen have (used to have atleast)?

So I don't really see the problem. It's as difficult (if not even more difficult) situation with Soviets. So no issues?

As Ost its better to not commit to Light Vehicles until you have seen Sovs Commander choice for certain.

Unfortunately that sets Ost Light Vehicles largely into a reactive roll in meta, that are only "safe" to field depending on Sovs initiative.

Otherwise, Guard own the hell out of them. Nor is it hard to nail them with Oorahing ATNade Cons either.

AT nades, then whatever else are the best way to bring down FHT.


Guards on their own are only a soft counter. Yeah after an AT nade, they will mince it.

I just had 4 out of 5 remaining guys in a Guard squad all sponteaneously combust to the 1st burst of a FHT.. but thats flames for yah.

Guards completely outrange FHT and control when and where it can engage.

If you are getting your Guars in FHT range, you are doing it wrong. Anyways, you should have ATNade support to disable it, in any case. That should go without saying.

i hardly see people play guards.

i hardly see people play guards.

Because guards only counter 2 light vehicles and suck against infantry. And after you get field guns and AT nades they become obsolete, whereas shocks stay relevant all game.

Because guards only counter 2 light vehicles and suck against infantry. And after you get field guns and AT nades they become obsolete, whereas shocks stay relevant all game.

Guard beat Grens, infact.

Guard Commanders are some of the strongest Sov has, esprcially with MT or/and T34/85 callin without tech costs.

Guard beat Grens, infact.

Guards CAN beat Grens. It's not guaranteed to happen every time. It depends on a number of factors.

Actually grens get the upper hand easily with upgrades. The only thing they need to avoid is the inevitable guard nade.

Guards CAN beat Grens. It's not guaranteed to happen every time. It depends on a number of factors. Actually grens get the upper hand easily with upgrades. The only thing they need to avoid is the inevitable guard nade.

So? Thats 60 munis. You think they shouldnt? Vanilla Guard beat vanilla Grens, even without Nade.

Guard are far from bad against infantrt, and they negate light vehicles to boot.

You seem to be trying to deliberately understate their use.

Jump back to quoted post13 Dec 2013, 12:58 PMundostrescuatro

i hardly see people play guards.

Because guards only counter 2 light vehicles and suck against infantry. And after you get field guns and AT nades they become obsolete, whereas shocks stay relevant all game.

Actually if I ever make guards it's only for their button ability.

Their AI and AT power are too average. Shocks are usually a better option.

Actually if I ever make guards it's only for their button ability.

Which can be easily substituted by AT nades (non-doctrinal).

Which can be easily substituted by AT nades (non-doctrinal).

Too unreliable against heavy armor.

If I have to ram or throw arty over an elefant or Tiger Ace, I prefer them being buttoned than risk to throw the RNG dices with AT nades.

Actually if I ever make guards it's only for their button ability.

Their AI and AT power are too average. Shocks are usually a better option.

If by average AI, you mean better than Grens, then I guess so.
If by average AT compared to the huge 120 Muni Shrek cost, then I guess so.

They are a hybrid unit that can perform many roles right out the gate, and can get even better with Muni investment. Probably their biggest meta strength, is pretty much discarding light vehicle builds from Ost opponents.

I think DP could use a DPS increase dor its cost, but really, its important to remain objective, and realise that as a 1.5armorx6 unit with AI DPS better than Grens, survival better than Grens, as well as light AT right out the gate, as well as a Nade option equivalent to PGrens Bundlenade, they are pretty superb.

With DP, they remain viable in lategame as AI (though I think that could be increased a bit) as well as AT not only with Button but the light AT added to that by the PTRS.

Id argue they are quite possibly the "best" overall Sov infantry choice, especially considering what else most of the Commanders that have them, also have in addition to that.

Hard to go wrong with Guard. They dont bleed much due to armor, have good AI DPS, light AT, Nade, 6 models for even more sustainability also vs explosives, and now are even CP1 (which, as OP pointed out, means they cam be deployed immediately vs especially Ost light armor choices)