Ill keep this short, simple and sweet.
Main problem is, when something is considered "OP" with the community, everyone will jump on the band wagon and follow the Sheppard like the good sheep they are, they will play one game, get owned, and blame it on a particular unit. It's not the balance, its your ability to adapt to new shit..
and besides, when you do ask relic to nerf something.. you bitch and moan a couple of weeks later when its gone.. stfu.
Not a single unit in this game has not been bitched about, If one PERSON in the community was to say a "flame pio" is OP just because someone got lucky with RNG and wiped a whole squad, everyone would make threads about it until it got nerfed.
The Community: Main reason why the game is "Unblanced"
29 Nov 2013, 09:56 AM
#1
Posts: 110
29 Nov 2013, 10:20 AM
#2
Posts: 89
thats just human nature
blame it on something/someone else
resist change
blame it on something/someone else
resist change
29 Nov 2013, 10:41 AM
#3
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedI think the actual dedicated Balance team has been remarkably good about sorting through the bullshit and making the real needed changes.
Unfortunately their good and objective work has been repeatedly overshadowed and sabotaged by what the Commander guy is doing, with apparent disregard for balance.
I fully support and stand behind the actual balance team. Theyve impressed me patch after patch and I like how systematic and organised they are in patch progression.
The Commanders however have been a disaster on launch, TWICE now.
Unfortunately their good and objective work has been repeatedly overshadowed and sabotaged by what the Commander guy is doing, with apparent disregard for balance.
I fully support and stand behind the actual balance team. Theyve impressed me patch after patch and I like how systematic and organised they are in patch progression.
The Commanders however have been a disaster on launch, TWICE now.
29 Nov 2013, 10:48 AM
#4
Posts: 110
Agreed Nuttlist, but the vast majority don't let up about stupid shit.. Half the QQ threads are about problems that don't even exist, And their quick fixes to solve the current problems are void. Hence why they have a "normal" day job and aren't working at the likes of Blizzard, EA, SEGA ect ect.
people are forgetting the games a mere 5 moths old, sometimes it takes years for a game to be balanced, but once it's done, tweaked and all the balance is fixed it becomes a masterpiece. Look at world of Warcraft for instance, its been released since 2004, and there still tweaking it, there's always balance issues when patches are released, that a side, the devs get around it and fix it. people just need to be patient.
people are forgetting the games a mere 5 moths old, sometimes it takes years for a game to be balanced, but once it's done, tweaked and all the balance is fixed it becomes a masterpiece. Look at world of Warcraft for instance, its been released since 2004, and there still tweaking it, there's always balance issues when patches are released, that a side, the devs get around it and fix it. people just need to be patient.
29 Nov 2013, 10:56 AM
#5
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThe single most poisonous Community issue atm, is the MG42.
Every thread attempted to fix it is categorically stonewalled by resident sov fanbois who deny there is even a problem, abort every suggestion simply by saying "no" with no justification or explanation and when push comes to shove, resort to L2P and threatening back to a previous MG42 state that isnt evem comparable to current balance while all the time, all the more hilariously, co pletely ignoring the fact that it is now MAXIM that suppresses faster lol.
Every thread attempted to fix it is categorically stonewalled by resident sov fanbois who deny there is even a problem, abort every suggestion simply by saying "no" with no justification or explanation and when push comes to shove, resort to L2P and threatening back to a previous MG42 state that isnt evem comparable to current balance while all the time, all the more hilariously, co pletely ignoring the fact that it is now MAXIM that suppresses faster lol.
29 Nov 2013, 10:58 AM
#6
Posts: 688
There's a grain of truth in what Xste says.
But many of the OP-threads are also a result of a general fight over interests. Notably between people who are much dedicated to one of the factions.
They try to build a picture of an unbalance that calls for a change which will favour their preferred faction.
The strategy behind this is of course that those fans hope to influence Relic into doing making such a change.
What the chances of that happening are, I don't know. Relic does seem to react to player feed-back on balance, but I think they are very aware that many of the claims about unbalance is in fact just a fight on words between players dedicated to one faction.
Besides, they have the beta where I suppose the inspiration for most of the player influenced changes comes from.
This forum is probably more used for spotting bugs and inconveniences in the gameplay.
But many of the OP-threads are also a result of a general fight over interests. Notably between people who are much dedicated to one of the factions.
They try to build a picture of an unbalance that calls for a change which will favour their preferred faction.
The strategy behind this is of course that those fans hope to influence Relic into doing making such a change.
What the chances of that happening are, I don't know. Relic does seem to react to player feed-back on balance, but I think they are very aware that many of the claims about unbalance is in fact just a fight on words between players dedicated to one faction.
Besides, they have the beta where I suppose the inspiration for most of the player influenced changes comes from.
This forum is probably more used for spotting bugs and inconveniences in the gameplay.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
29 Nov 2013, 13:02 PM
#7
Posts: 1439
My mate once said:
"['''] in the days of CoH1 we were siting on Gamereplays.org in Strategies section all day long discussing about strategies and how to counter them. In CoH2 we stay in the balance section all the time and argue which unit is more OP. [...]"
I think this quote sums it all up nicely
And I am not saying I'm without guilt here.
"['''] in the days of CoH1 we were siting on Gamereplays.org in Strategies section all day long discussing about strategies and how to counter them. In CoH2 we stay in the balance section all the time and argue which unit is more OP. [...]"
I think this quote sums it all up nicely
And I am not saying I'm without guilt here
.
29 Nov 2013, 13:12 PM
#8
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedGR was one of the most poisonous gaming sites and communities I've ever seen. An utter cesspool of fanboism, asslicking, cliques and moderators abusing their priviledge.
There was no "discussion" on GR. Only endless insults, trolling and misconduct.
Thank the internet it is now nothing more than a bad memory.
There was no "discussion" on GR. Only endless insults, trolling and misconduct.
Thank the internet it is now nothing more than a bad memory.
29 Nov 2013, 13:53 PM
#9
Posts: 1439
Funny you say that.
29 Nov 2013, 14:07 PM
#10
Posts: 971
Although there are abuse of some units, like Gren+LMG spam or T70 rush, I think the game is currently well balanced except Soviet Industry and Elite Troops commander which are clearly OP.
And about the people joining the QQ wagon. Yes it's true and I think it will always be, I don't know anyway to fix that.
And about the people joining the QQ wagon. Yes it's true and I think it will always be, I don't know anyway to fix that.
29 Nov 2013, 14:14 PM
#11
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
There isn't a single game in existence that has productive balance discussions on public forums. That's why private discussions with hand-picked top players are the best way for a developer to receive balance feedback. Look at SC2, LoL, Dota 2, etc. These games go to their pros for balance feedback, not public forums. If you want a competitive game, you balance for the highest possible level of play, because you have the least chance of balance issues being exaggerated by a lack of player skill.
Balance feedback and design feedback are two entirely different things. A developer needs to use public forums for design feedback, because if the general playerbase does not find the game enjoyable to play mechanically, it doesn't matter how balanced the game is, because nobody will be playing it anyways. But your average player is not equal to your top competitive player who's invested 20x the time/effort into the game when it comes to balance. The two aren't even comparable.
Balance feedback and design feedback are two entirely different things. A developer needs to use public forums for design feedback, because if the general playerbase does not find the game enjoyable to play mechanically, it doesn't matter how balanced the game is, because nobody will be playing it anyways. But your average player is not equal to your top competitive player who's invested 20x the time/effort into the game when it comes to balance. The two aren't even comparable.
29 Nov 2013, 14:42 PM
#12
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
That's why private discussions with hand-picked top players are the best way for a developer to receive balance feedback. Look at SC2, LoL, Dota 2, etc.
Got any proof? I've seen plenty of top level players not happy about the state of their respective game at times, it leads me to believe their is no weight in your claim.
29 Nov 2013, 14:45 PM
#13
Posts: 393
Agreed with Ipkai, I know that a lot of pros disagreed with the latest sc2 patch for example.
sig by tricky 
29 Nov 2013, 14:48 PM
#14
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedUnfortunately many top level players are completely in the dark about actual stats and how some mechanics actually work.
They may be good at using what exists in practice, by the seat of their pants "feels" but that doesnt automatically mean that all of them have any good input to offer on what to do about things, or that they have a good sense of what the repercussions of those changes would be.
But those players that can do both? Absolutely agreed. A goldmine in terms of feedback.
@Ipkai: You misread his post. He said those players are the best ones to get feedback from. He didnt say that Devs actually implemented that feedback in a way that made the pros happy, which is the root of your false implication, that he didnt actually even say. You are reading things into it, and arguing against them, that he didnt actually even say.
They may be good at using what exists in practice, by the seat of their pants "feels" but that doesnt automatically mean that all of them have any good input to offer on what to do about things, or that they have a good sense of what the repercussions of those changes would be.
But those players that can do both? Absolutely agreed. A goldmine in terms of feedback.
@Ipkai: You misread his post. He said those players are the best ones to get feedback from. He didnt say that Devs actually implemented that feedback in a way that made the pros happy, which is the root of your false implication, that he didnt actually even say. You are reading things into it, and arguing against them, that he didnt actually even say.
29 Nov 2013, 14:53 PM
#15
Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5
Got any proof? I've seen plenty of top level players not happy about the state of their respective game at times, it leads me to believe their is no weight in your claim.
I should have structured that paragraph better. I have no idea what discussions, if any, companies have with players in private. When I say SC2/LoL/Dota 2 go to their pros for balance feedback, I'm talking discussions (which I assume happen) and looking at professional games (which obviously happens if you trust what you read in patch notes). Doesn't mean everybody is going to agree with the changes, but they're definitely influenced by the competitive community.
29 Nov 2013, 14:59 PM
#16
15 Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
So your whole statement is based on assumption rather than actually knowing the process the balance teams at valve, riot and blizzard implements?
29 Nov 2013, 15:01 PM
#17
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedAnother false implication that nobody has said.
/facepalm...
/facepalm...
29 Nov 2013, 15:10 PM
#18
1 Posts: 1006
I think the actual dedicated Balance team has been remarkably good about sorting through the bullshit and making the real needed changes.
Unfortunately their good and objective work has been repeatedly overshadowed and sabotaged by what the Commander guy is doing, with apparent disregard for balance.
I fully support and stand behind the actual balance team. Theyve impressed me patch after patch and I like how systematic and organised they are in patch progression.
The Commanders however have been a disaster on launch, TWICE now.
+1
29 Nov 2013, 15:27 PM
#19
3 
Posts: 368
GR was one of the most poisonous gaming sites and communities I've ever seen. An utter cesspool of fanboism, asslicking, cliques and moderators abusing their priviledge.
I'm sorry, it seems like you only made it to the balance-discussion forum. Which does not surprise me.
Then again, you never played vCoH iirc, so how would you have a clue about what GR was, such as the quality of the discussion on the strategy-forums? *
* this is, of course, a purely rhetorical question, since your
reply would have to be surprising indeed to interest me.
reply would have to be surprising indeed to interest me.
/Uninstalled
29 Nov 2013, 15:29 PM
#20
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThen again, you never played vCoH iirc, so how would you have a clue about what GR was, such as the quality of the discussion on the strategy-forums? *
* this is, of course, a purely rhetorical question, since your
reply would have to be surprising indeed to interest me.
DoW2. Same thing. GR was poison. Good riddance and three cheers for Coh2.org!
If you have further personal barbs, take them to PM, and stop derailing.
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