Orangepests balance suggestions

Heres what is suggest for balancing

Wehr

8-rad call in for mechanized is made into a combat group, given an pio, raising the cost to 420 MP, this should slow down the spam, as well increasing the pop requirements, giving them a non oppressive unit to go alongside it should ensure that spam is minimized, while not outright destroying the call in.

MG-42, add real traversal and increase set up time marginally, to ensure flanks can be appropriately done and makes the mg42 require more support as right now it is practically a frontline unit that locks flanks by itself

Grenadiers, i feel like something has to be done about their merge-luft combo, as having 16 mp reinforce on elites is absurdly efficient, but considering the matchup versus USF, it is needed to help make the matchup playable.

USF

Medic tent free reinforce needs to go, unquestionable.

EZ-8 needs either an HP nerf, or a scatter nerf. Alternatively, remove the white phosp, as it makes the tank overwhelmingly strong in duels and in group fights, especially considering its already far better than all stock generalists.

Rifles- Make the bar muni reduction cost be -15, so it's 45 per bar instead of 30, way to cheap and makes rifle spam way to efficient, pour it on them needs a muni cost, or a performance reduction as its way to braindead and overwhelmingly powerful.

Chaffe, reduce mp cost by 20, reduce damage output, right now due to its extremely strong damage, range and mobility. It combined with jeeps basically steamrolls DAK.

Scott - White phosp needs a 30 muni cost added to it, or a heavy performance reduction, it gives you shotblockers, and insane damage, on top of being on a long range, durable light vehicle. also make it cp 4

Pathfinders- give them some additional HP at vet 2, so they scale better as long range firepower and support units, right now they fall apart way too easily in the late game while providing very little power due to the long cooldowns.



Brits:

Honestly brits feel actually pretty balanced, i would most likely just buff footguards a little bit, as they feel worse compared to wehr elites, but overall the matchup vs wehr is fair, they stomp DAK but that's due to DAK units being worse.

DAK:
Honestly the biggest problem right now with dak is the early game, i would give the halftrack more armor, to help it contend with the jeep, with the pgrens being oppressed off by the rifle+jeep combo, the halftrack has to be able to stop it, or at least mitigate it more heavily.

Pjägers get added to t1, increase their range by 5, cost should be around 275, reduce their dmg output vs inf a little bit, and replace their weapon upgrade with something actually useful for their intended role.

Assgrens, give them either more HP, or RA, right now closing in is incredibly manpower inefficient versus rifles, and arguably sections, as you lose out and usually have incredibly bad trades, these should be your CQC shock unit in the mid to lategame, where pgrens scale into their long-range firepower. And their role should reflect that accordingly, right now it does not. Could also add sprint, but that seems unnecessary.

Bergsaleri - Either flat cost reduction, or a performance increases to be more in tune with how rifles are, as they lack the MP efficient economy of the US faction, even if they were on par with rifles, they would be inferior. Which is OK, they just need to be able to hold their ground more substantially

m13, give it 90 more HP, should solve its problem of dealing with the chaffee, but would wait on any real changes until USF nerfs are applied.

Marder, needs more mobility, right now its clunky, hard to use and basically dead weight.

As for the upgrades, grenades need to be 100, the same thing with the half-track armor. As right now, they are mandatory upgrades, but are overpriced for what they give you.


Honestly there's a bunch more i'd want. But this seems like a good start, not that i expect relic to act on it.

USF

Medic tent free reinforce needs to go, unquestionable.

EZ-8 needs either an HP nerf, or a scatter nerf. Alternatively, remove the white phosp, as it makes the tank overwhelmingly strong in duels and in group fights, especially considering its already far better than all stock generalists.

Rifles- Make the bar muni reduction cost be -15, so it's 45 per bar instead of 30, way to cheap and makes rifle spam way to efficient, pour it on them needs a muni cost, or a performance reduction as its way to braindead and overwhelmingly powerful.

Chaffe, reduce mp cost by 20, reduce damage output, right now due to its extremely strong damage, range and mobility. It combined with jeeps basically steamrolls DAK.

Scott - White phosp needs a 30 muni cost added to it, or a heavy performance reduction, it gives you shotblockers, and insane damage, on top of being on a long range, durable light vehicle. also make it cp 4

Pathfinders- give them some additional HP at vet 2, so they scale better as long range firepower and support units, right now they fall apart way too easily in the late game while providing very little power due to the long cooldowns.

Air support center is still broken too no? Im no pro but still seems way too strong even after nerfs (at least in team games)

1v1 it feels like you can actually punish someone for early investing in ASC upgrades, but team games is a whole other story imo

Agree with pretty much everything here tho

Some changes are mainly for 1v1.

Like for instance, DAK PGs absolutely blows in teamgames for being 300MP, they get overwhelmed badly and bleed you to death.

At the same time Bersas in teamgames are quite strong because of the passive sprint and how fast you can get them bunched up.

Other suggestions are more or less shared problem.

Also speaking of E8, I think its better off starting with removing ass.engis bundled with it and reducing cost to be ~550MP.
Right now, you are not giving up anything by calling it. You keep your map presence, you get tank and you get unit maintaining it. And with multiple ass.engis you can repair E8 supper fast, making them even more oppressive.

Axis on the other hand get 550 panther which is shit against inf and dosent even have MG upgrade.

And on top of that, whole USF mech.commander is overfit with 0CP abilities. You literally get vet1 jeep from the get go, which is either free capping unit or mortar\MG dispenser, removing any need of T2 and you also get fast deploy for 0CP, while Axis have pretty much the exact same ability (maybe a bit better) for 1CP.

Well and cooldown for both of them should be around 2 minutes, instead of 1.

And imo, DAK needs its whole economy to be overhault. Right now it feels like you pay upfront full price for the inferior units, which are technically will be superior in late game ones you get grades\vet, but this approach only leads for DAK being destroyed early or them snowballing like crazy.

"8-rad call in for mechanized is made into a combat group, given an pio, raising the cost to 420 MP, this should slow down the spam, as well increasing the pop requirements, giving them a non oppressive unit to go alongside it should ensure that spam is minimized, while not outright destroying the call in.'


8 rad needs to go. It coming in before allies can even tech their respective light vehicles is cancer. That, coupled with the fact that zook rifles are completely non-viable given how squishy they are, makes them incredibly oppressive. A pair of them can effectively end the game before the 10-minute mark.

USF rifle changes would be nice

"8-rad call in for mechanized is made into a combat group, given an pio, raising the cost to 420 MP, this should slow down the spam, as well increasing the pop requirements, giving them a non oppressive unit to go alongside it should ensure that spam is minimized, while not outright destroying the call in.'


8 rad needs to go. It coming in before allies can even tech their respective light vehicles is cancer. That, coupled with the fact that zook rifles are completely non-viable given how squishy they are, makes them incredibly oppressive. A pair of them can effectively end the game before the 10-minute mark.

We must be playing different games, the 8rad pops out AFTER the greyhound unless you go bars first, which make sense considering you are at most stages of the early to mid of the game, ahead in manpower value, field presence, the only extremly problematic thing of the 8rad at the moment is the ROF bug.

Air support center is still broken too no? Im no pro but still seems way too strong even after nerfs (at least in team games)

1v1 it feels like you can actually punish someone for early investing in ASC upgrades, but team games is a whole other story imo

Agree with pretty much everything here tho

ASC is very niche in 1v1, I dont know much about teamgames, but after the nerfs, the planes seem very avoidable

but after the nerfs, the planes seem very avoidable

Are they? Had a game yesterday where i was reacting instantly every time and support weapons still took heavy damage/got pinned. Inf can dodge it no problem

Also had a pak get decrewed when it didnt even visually seem like it got hit (and my opponent wasnt even aiming for it, was trying to hit something else). The damage zone of the strafe is pretty wonky

I won the game anyway cuz his inf micro was terrible, and i rushed a p4 which he couldnt deal with cuz he was so behind in fuel. THe fuel costs can be punished, but it still seems really brainless to use

I think we are missing the real balance issue: PvP vs PvE.

We have already had several balance updates. Yet, skirmish players still cant even see the stats page at the end of the game unless they play the match to completion.

As you were. Great post Orangepest.

We have already had several balance updates. Yet, skirmish players still cant even see the stats page at the end of the game unless they play the match to completion.

wtf i don't understand this. How are they able to implement complex physics calculations but not something plain like a stats screen?

wtf i don't understand this. How are they able to implement complex physics calculations but not something plain like a stats screen?

My sentiment exactly. How? The screen exists. They just refuse to show it to you.

It is insanely obvious they do not play or QA their own game ever.

vCoh was like this with simple UI stuff that never worked. It has been the Relic trademark since the beginning. Insane calcs all happening in real time across continents, but simple UI stuff cant be done. Its too hard.




@Orangepest Sorry, I did not mean to go off course on your topic.

My sentiment exactly. How? The screen exists. They just refuse to show it to you.

It is insanely obvious they do not play or QA their own game ever.

vCoh was like this with simple UI stuff that never worked. It has been the Relic trademark since the beginning. Insane calcs all happening in real time across continents, but simple UI stuff cant be done. Its too hard.




@Orangepest Sorry, I did not mean to go off course on your topic.

wow, that Pic is Gold!

It is insanely obvious they do not play or QA their own game ever.

They have Marcus and DevM for that?

They have Marcus and DevM for that?

No idea if those guys do that stuff. As designers they may be focusing on game play. Like designing units, balance, etc.

It seems like a UI Design issue. There is no option to see the stats. You get "Exit to Main Menu" as the only option I have seen. In Coh2, you could still see the stats even after leaving to the main menu.

I have no way to look at or test it anymore. Even though I was banned I could still skirmish Coh3. But I uninstalled/reinstalled it and now I cant run Coh3 at all because it needs to connect to the Relic servers on its first run. Which it cant.

Maybe I am just a mentally challenged candy brain. This has been shown to be true in the past.

Pjägers get added to t1, increase their range by 5, cost should be around 275, reduce their dmg output vs inf a little bit, and replace their weapon upgrade with something actually useful for their intended role.

If you gonna nerf their AI capabilities they may be too useless most of the time. MG upgrade make them pretty decent but I feel like it shouldn't cost 100 muni but rather something like 60 or more like 80 if you want make them buildable in tech. And 2nd suggestion I'd make them affected by Veteran Squad Leaders and increase their squad from 4 to 5 after upgrade. What they could get as upgrade for their inteded role? Panzershreck seems to be rather too powerful. I'd keep their MG to be honest other upgrades would make them either too powerful or useless when comes to defend themselves against any allies infantry squad.

They have Marcus and DevM for that?

Well prob they would see bugs like gatling canon on 8rad or many different things that trap us this patch and react, wouldn't they?