I've been incorporating some big call-in tanks into my Soviet play lately, specifically the IS-2 from the Shock Infantry commander. In recent games, I've taken four panzerfausts to the IS-2's frontal armor four times, and every time it penetrated and caused engine damage. Compare this to the countless AT Nades I've used in an attempt to slow down a Tiger (many of them from the rear) which might have been successful maybe 20% of the time.
Do fausts have a higher chance to penetrate than AT Nades? And if so...why? Don't they already have longer range? Or is this more about a difference between the armor of the Tiger vs. the IS-2?
AT Nades Vs Panzerfausts
18 Nov 2013, 14:14 PM
#1
Posts: 187
18 Nov 2013, 14:28 PM
#2
Posts: 117
I think conscripts with at nades are better in general. but I thinks it's just rng I've seen tigers take engine damage just as often as any other tank
conscripts also get oorah which let's them close the distance.
Grena have to slowly walk up to what they're fausting which usually gets a model or 2 killed.
conscripts also get oorah which let's them close the distance.
Grena have to slowly walk up to what they're fausting which usually gets a model or 2 killed.
18 Nov 2013, 14:33 PM
#3
2 
Posts: 2181
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApmrrrPr20ncdEpuSHcxNko1VGVFYjczYXpFZWhqOHc#gid=5
Atnades have penetration of 100 while panzerfausts have 140.
The chance to penetrate is armor/penetration
They have same range, I think it is to compensate for oorah but it is very annoying pfasut always penetrates t34 while atnade can bounce of p4
Atnades have penetration of 100 while panzerfausts have 140.
The chance to penetrate is armor/penetration
They have same range, I think it is to compensate for oorah but it is very annoying pfasut always penetrates t34 while atnade can bounce of p4
18 Nov 2013, 14:40 PM
#4
Posts: 187
I think conscripts with at nades are better
conscripts also get oorah which let's them close the distance.
Grena have to slowly walk up to what they're fausting which usually gets a model or 2 killed.
True...that does explain the range difference. And I'm sure there are dozens of other arguments you can make how the units balance out in the end. But just for my knowledge, how do the abilities compare in terms of their chance to penetrate and cause engine damage?
EDIT: Thanks Sarantini.
18 Nov 2013, 14:44 PM
#5
Posts: 187
I've stopped wasting munitions throwing AT Nades at the frontal armor of a P4. If I can't get behind it, I don't even bother.
18 Nov 2013, 14:48 PM
#6
Posts: 476
The penetration of the Pfaust is also higher because the At-Nade has a chance to hit the reararmor from the front.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
18 Nov 2013, 14:50 PM
#7
Posts: 187
The penetration of the Pfaust is also higher because the At-Nade has a chance to hit the reararmor from the front.
I assume that you'd have to be pretty close to it to hit the rear armor while standing in front?
18 Nov 2013, 15:03 PM
#8
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThe ATNade has a chance to hit rear armor even when thrown from the front.
18 Nov 2013, 15:47 PM
#9
Posts: 187
The ATNade has a chance to hit rear armor even when thrown from the front.
Is the chance affected by the Conscripts proximity to the vehicle? And if the Conscripts are behind the vehicle, I assume it's a 100% of hitting the rear (but not necessarily a 100% of penetrating)?
18 Nov 2013, 16:34 PM
#10
Posts: 971
BTW, can panzerfausts now go throught obstacles?
Last day I tried to get cover behind a house and I got fausted anyway.
Last day I tried to get cover behind a house and I got fausted anyway.
18 Nov 2013, 17:04 PM
#11
Posts: 292
BTW, can panzerfausts now go throught obstacles?
Last day I tried to get cover behind a house and I got fausted anyway.
Yes. As long as you have vision on the tank and you stand close enough to fire the Panzerfaust it doesn't matter where the tank moves, it'll go through any obstacles.
Ade, mein liebes Schätzelein
18 Nov 2013, 17:35 PM
#12
Posts: 604
From my experience, some stone walls, fences and buildings block the Panzerfaust.
The higher penetration is, as others have already said, to compensate for not being able to lob it over the front armor (and also obstacles).
Plus AT Grenades profit a lot from both Ooraah and their faster aim time, making it much harder to avoid and much easier to deploy (not complaining, just stating its advantages). Of course a disadvantage is that you need to spend a little manpower/fuel/time to unlock them.
Overall, I'd say the balance between Panzerfaust and AT grenade is fine and shouldn't really be messed with. But with the way things are going right now, chances are they'll do something stupid like buff the Panzerfaust instead of just fixing the goddamn commanders.
The higher penetration is, as others have already said, to compensate for not being able to lob it over the front armor (and also obstacles).
Plus AT Grenades profit a lot from both Ooraah and their faster aim time, making it much harder to avoid and much easier to deploy (not complaining, just stating its advantages). Of course a disadvantage is that you need to spend a little manpower/fuel/time to unlock them.
Overall, I'd say the balance between Panzerfaust and AT grenade is fine and shouldn't really be messed with. But with the way things are going right now, chances are they'll do something stupid like buff the Panzerfaust instead of just fixing the goddamn commanders.
19 Nov 2013, 01:57 AM
#13
Posts: 73
I feel the AT nade is too much su-85 and p4 can arrive at the same time almost in a close game and the p4s only hope is to flank, the cheap at nade shuts down your flank completly against the su-85 which can quickly turn and kill your p4. i feel if the at nade got a damage increase and no engine critical it would mean that any competant sov player would have to mine his flanks instead.
All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds
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19 Nov 2013, 03:05 AM
#14
Posts: 208
I've had a T34 recieve a destroyed engine, from the front, with full health from a panzerfaust.
Never seen heavy engine damage from an AT nade.
Is this the case?
Never seen heavy engine damage from an AT nade.
Is this the case?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
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19 Nov 2013, 08:56 AM
#15
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedRoflthecat pretty much explained it.
Faust: Better penetration, but directional and can in some circumstances impact on terrain. Longer aim time.
ATNade: Less penetration but an indisclosed chance to hit rear armor from front. Basically if the ATNade is thrown, it will always hit no matter how far the vehicle moves (flies like a suicidal homing pidgeon over and around terrain) Benefits indirectly from Oorah. Costs fuel to upgrade but Cons get Merge and Oorah for free.
Both do the same dmg iirc.
Indont know how the difference between engine dmg types are determined.
I would suggest that first engine crit should do light engine crit, and a second subsequent one always cause an immobilisation crit.
Faust: Better penetration, but directional and can in some circumstances impact on terrain. Longer aim time.
ATNade: Less penetration but an indisclosed chance to hit rear armor from front. Basically if the ATNade is thrown, it will always hit no matter how far the vehicle moves (flies like a suicidal homing pidgeon over and around terrain) Benefits indirectly from Oorah. Costs fuel to upgrade but Cons get Merge and Oorah for free.
Both do the same dmg iirc.
Indont know how the difference between engine dmg types are determined.
I would suggest that first engine crit should do light engine crit, and a second subsequent one always cause an immobilisation crit.
19 Nov 2013, 19:40 PM
#16
Posts: 577
Both have 100 dmg when penetrating causing 95% engine damage and 5% heavy engine damage. This critical depends only on the weapon hitting and penetrating the tank.
There is another chance to cause a critical damage which depends only on the targeted tank and it's hp percentage. Causing damage to a tank always has a small chance to cause a minor critical if it's below a certain percentage or a major critical at 0 hp. The exact values can be found here.
There is another chance to cause a critical damage which depends only on the targeted tank and it's hp percentage. Causing damage to a tank always has a small chance to cause a minor critical if it's below a certain percentage or a major critical at 0 hp. The exact values can be found here.
19 Nov 2013, 19:57 PM
#17
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedThanks Milka. So no problem there.
Although I prefer my suggestion of subsequent engine crit causing effects causing heavy engine dmg, to increase the impetus of Cons/Grens in particularly in numbers to not only engine dmg but practically immobilize a vehicle rather than just scratching it for a bit more dmg.
Although I prefer my suggestion of subsequent engine crit causing effects causing heavy engine dmg, to increase the impetus of Cons/Grens in particularly in numbers to not only engine dmg but practically immobilize a vehicle rather than just scratching it for a bit more dmg.
19 Nov 2013, 23:55 PM
#18
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
ATNade: Less penetration but an indisclosed chance to hit rear armor from front. Basically if the ATNade is thrown, it will always hit no matter how far the vehicle moves (flies like a suicidal homing pidgeon over and around terrain)
.
ATNades miss on very fast moving targets pretty much always. Good thing nobody usually drives stuff in a straight line past you so you don't get to enjoy atnades disappearing into thin air that often.
Chance to hit rear armor from front seems minimal if it even exists.
Making the engine destroyed effect be something you can aim for with multiple nades would be a huge nerf to soviet T3 and doctrinal tanks. Engine destroyed should be left for mines to cause and the current small crit chance for engine destroyed on faust/atnade removed completely because it's just the most annoying form of RNG possible, a small chance for a huge effect to happen without any player input.
20 Nov 2013, 00:00 AM
#19
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedATNades miss on very fast moving targets pretty much always. Good thing nobody usually drives stuff in a straight line past you so you don't get to enjoy atnades disappearing into thin air that often.
I have never once seen that happen.
Are you sure you are not confusing that with a non-penetrating hit?
As to the stacking Engine crit proposal, we will have to agree to disagree.
20 Nov 2013, 00:45 AM
#20
Posts: 177
Panzerfaust can engine disable kv8 from the front, nuff said. At nade yeah sure it can hit from the back sometimes due to a Bug, but fausts are facing less armored units and has a higher base penetration
it's funny when grenadiers say "im not sure a panzerfaust is going to do much against that thing" and then it instantly engine damages your IS2 from the front
it's funny when grenadiers say "im not sure a panzerfaust is going to do much against that thing" and then it instantly engine damages your IS2 from the front
"Don't say anything, he will just keep on doing it."
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