Relic, I have a question.

So I just came out of another game ruined by the tiger ace.

For some reason I can't upload a replay, so I'll just briefly describe what happened.

Me and my opponent were playing a relatively even 1v1 on kholodney ferma. I slowly get the upper hand by getting multiple squad whipes on his grenadies, while my losses were much lighter. He brilliantly uses his 1 P4 to flank my 1 SU85, and gains an armor advantage. While I was rebuilding my SU85, he was replenishing his heavy infantry losses and instantly getting them to vet3. So far, the game was still even. I still had more and better infantry (half his infantry was pioneers), but of slightly lower vet, and we both had one tank. We both had no resources left worth mentioning (he spent his extra fuel on vet).

Now, at this point it was impossible to say who was going to win. We both fought hard and the game was very even. It was FUN!

Until my opponent hit 7cp.

At 7cp, my opponent called in his tiger ace for the grand cost of 0mp, 0fuel. He attacked me, and crushed me.

How am I supposed to beat this monster, when all of my resources are drained by fighting an opponent who is an equal match? Where am I supposed to get the 3 extra tanks from, when my opponent is not a vastly inferior player to me? Tell me Relic, I'm dying to know, how can I possibly beat the tiger ace when it's not called in as a 'final stand'?.

You buy Pussy Riot (Soviet Industry) so you can pump T-34s until you get a successful ram.

Pay-to-win, bro!

you can't load a replay because the replay system isn't updated for the new version.

You buy Pussy Riot (Soviet Industry) so you can pump T-34s until you get a successful ram.

Pay-to-win, bro!

Yes I know this is the answer. It was a rhetorical question, really.

I just want Relic to say it.

In their last little update they seemed quite happy with the tiger ace. So they have to have an answer to my little inquiry.

In 1v1 atleast, I don't think you are supposed to "take out" the TA itself. Your best bet is probably doing some guerilla tactics by avoiding the tiger ace itself and capping around where it's not, and slowly grinding on his infantry and other units so he is left with no capping power or field presence.

A problem however, would be if the ace takes out all of your base in the meantime. Unless you have a fhq, I think the game ends right there when you have no more buildings left (soviets can't set up bunkers or mg emplacements like Ost, which prevents the game from ending when you lost all other buildings, I think)

You might get lucky and the Ost player tries to move his ace to take out your capping infantry though

They won't answer you. GG btw. I know how frustrating it is.

I don't think we will see balance for a long long time.

The ace went straight to his base, he was winning on vp, but didnt have me low enough to win before i demolished his buildings.

They won't answer you. GG btw. I know how frustrating it is.

I don't think we will see balance for a long long time.

The ace went straight to his base, he was winning on vp, but didnt have me low enough to win before i demolished his buildings.

Yes, GG. Sorry for the BM during the game. I was a little bit frustrated.

Mines do slow it down and Mark Vehicle help a lot. An artillery piece on a Tiger Ace with a damaged engine to prevent repairing works wonders. Problems is when you're slightly on the backfoot, then this thing is the last nail in the coffin for you.

IMO the Ace is not the biggest problem with this doctrine, it's rather when his team mate who got Luftwaffe helps him get the fuel he needs to vet up his force. As far as I know the Elephant is the most expensive unit that you can buy as Ostheer, in a game I had tonight we faced one of those as veterancy three, straight from the factory in Germany. I watched the replay and counted that you need to buy veterancy 8 times to get it to vet 3. That's 440 manpower and 160 fuel which is easily affordable in team games since a vet 3 Elephant is a nightmare, even with the new veterancy system.

How's that balanced? Here's the replay: http://www46.zippyshare.com/v/39879024/file.html

The Tiger Ace is awsome perfect High stakes risk/reward unit I just feel like a lot of you rather whine and spread negativity instead of adapting and using your wits and tactics its one tank and hardly unkillable and the risk his huge. Stop whining 'and have fun .

Yes I know this is the answer. It was a rhetorical question, really.

I just want Relic to say it.

In their last little update they seemed quite happy with the tiger ace. So they have to have an answer to my little inquiry.

just a thought why should relic answer a loaded question, just saying.

also there was a tiger ace thread this could have probably gone in.

The Tiger Ace is awsome perfect High stakes risk/reward unit I just feel like a lot of you rather whine and spread negativity instead of adapting and using your wits and tactics its one tank and hardly unkillable and the risk his huge. Stop whining 'and have fun .

the reward for a tiger ace is almost too good. in a even game if tiger ace is called in all it need to do is not stupidly run on ice and charge to enemy base and wipe everything in it. i stopped playing because in a 4v4 game my base got charged by 4 tiger ace follow by vet 3 panther, P4, Ost. that is unstoppable in any game if enemy all called in tiger ace. and trooper training ability should be at least 1cp. i hate have initial engagement is a non vet conscript vs a vet 3 gren.

The Tiger Ace is awsome perfect High stakes risk/reward unit I just feel like a lot of you rather whine and spread negativity instead of adapting and using your wits and tactics its one tank and hardly unkillable and the risk his huge. Stop whining 'and have fun .

High reward, 0 risk.

Usually people call the Tiger Ace when they are going to lose the game anyway. I don't see any risk there.
If by chance you use the TA when the game is even is because it doesn't consume popcap and that way you can have a much larger army than your enemy and give him the finishing blow.

Tiger Ace is a free ticket for another chance to win the game. It's a moronic unit and it should be nerfed or redesigned.

use the comunity free commander.

get 2 conscripts go t1 2 penals a heavy mg and a heavy mortar. go t4 and make 1 su for his first taks. then make katyusha.

dont upgrade the conscripts much and save the fuel for an early su.

use penal flamers that ignore armor to kill their vetted units. use the conscripts to reinforce the penals. use the heavy mg to stablish a safe zone against pgreens. and use the mortars early game vs the paks and the katyusha late game for the emplacements. hold the points all the early game and keep bombarding him use your mortar vet skill and since the defense commander floats munition use those munitions to plant mines in all access roads. dont be afraid to spend it. you dont use it much with this commander anyway. your goal is to foce him to get the tiger ace in a loosing situation where he has no army and is loosing by vps. then all you have todo is to retreat to the safety of your mines and use katyusha strikes as bait since they appear on map you can launch a barrage to lure the tiguer into a mined zone. once his army is dealth with you can start spamming light AT guns. since the Atiger can kill the more expensive At guns going for mass produced cheaper at guns is better he wont be able to handle the 6+ at gun firing at him. and they also earn vet pretty quickly.

The Problem in my eyes is not that the tiger ace is too strong or comes too early. Its more how ppl react when he hits the field. Ppl are just like omg the tank is for free its totaly op. But in fact tiger ace is the most expensive unit ingame. You pay for it because you sacrefice all your income for the rest of the game. The problem is that ppl like to think omg there is a tiger ace, i need to kill it! But from my point of view this is the total wrong way. When you see your opponent has the tiger just avoid it and start bleeding him out. Kill as much inf as you can. What can he do if he cant reinforce his troops or build pios to repair his tiger. Just bleed him out

But in fact tiger ace is the most expensive unit ingame. You pay for it because you sacrefice all your income for the rest of the game.

the problem is that income you sacrifice is zero since there's often no rest of the game

IMO this super heavy tanks should not be available in 1v1 games. And the tiger ace is clearly broken, but than again they do that on purpose so they can sell the commander. Remember Osttrupen, AssGrens, FHQ and many other OP things with the buy commaners.

Keep in mind that a single t34 can knock out the tiger ace! There us still the chance that your first t34 can destroy gun and engine of the tiger ace. I wont say elite commander is ultra broken. It definitely needs some tweaks but there are other things like the new soviet mg im way more worried about

Keep in mind that a single t34 can knock out the tiger ace!

You said it.

Sometimes one T34 is enough to disable a Tiger Ace.
Sometimes you need six or even more.

You can't leave the game's outcome to a stupid dice throw where your T34s are the dice. Moreover when usually the Tiger Ace appears when the ostheer player is losing the game, which makes the soviet player to rage even more and makes him wish to unistall the game.

And in teamgames, disabling the Tiger Ace with a ram or ATnade doesn't mean anything, as the other players can support the Ace and repair it in no time.

I am speaking strictly from 1v1s.

Just had a tiger ace game as a soviet and got the armored assault doctrine (amazing doc btw) and waited. It was a pretty evenly matched game, he built some real painful units and vetted them pretty quick. I was dealing with vet 3 sniper and vet 3 pgrens with shreks and one without most of the game. Whenever there was a lull in the fighting I put down mines. I mined the bridge to my base (semois), I mined the crossroads and I mined everywhere I felt he would take his tiger.

Well around 7 CPs he still had a good amount of infantry and I had 2 t34s, a double vet at gun and 4 vetted cons. I felt I was ready. With radio intercept I knew the TA was coming. I braced myself and hope he would hit a mine. To my chagrin he bypassed all my mines and didn't take any roads. I sent in my t34s to ram since my is2 was almost ready to come out, sent my cons, and sent my at gun. The t34s exploded, my at gun got some decent penetrating shots injuring him a little, and my cons got the 4th at nade to do engine damage. In the course of that same battle my is2 hit the field and got there as my armor and at gun were gone. The is2 went to battle for a minute or so before I pulled back badly damaged. The TA was also damaged pretty good but my opponent also had vet 3 pios, my infantry was already chased off the field from his attacking infantry accompanying the tiger.

Ok I'm rambling so long story short I lost the is2 shortly after, another at gun, and 2 t34/85s. However, his once invisible infantry were not showing up in the field fully reinforced. I knew he was out of reinforcements. I got one more t34 and sent it in with another at fun and finally got the outcome I wanted, the ram was succesful (first try) and he had no gun and heavy engine damage. Then I just let my at gun do all the work. Point is, just stick it out vs the TA. Eventually he will have no infantry and you will have moments to reinforce. It's not OP at all.

Ok I'm rambling so long story short I lost the is2 shortly after, another at gun, and 2 t34/85s. However, his once invisible infantry were not showing up in the field fully reinforced. I knew he was out of reinforcements. I got one more t34 and sent it in with another at fun and finally got the outcome I wanted, the ram was succesful (first try) and he had no gun and heavy engine damage. Then I just let my at gun do all the work. Point is, just stick it out vs the TA. Eventually he will have no infantry and you will have moments to reinforce. It's not OP at all.

You lost 3 T34s, 2 T34/85, 2 ATguns, 1 IS2... all of them top stop a FREE tank which you finally could destroy because the RNG God smiled you with your last T34...

Yeah, not OP at all.

PD: I want the same shit you smoke, dude.