-Is this ability balanced?
-Is this ability worth the muni cost for what it accomplishes?
-Is this ability in line with similar off map aircraft call ins?
-For me, I used it in 2 games and it appeared to have no effect on tanks or infantry and I didn't lose sight. Is your experience different?
Lets discuss this
I do not have replays, I will try to capture replays show-casing this ability.
OKW - Overwatch doc - Sector assault ability.
18 Jul 2021, 14:09 PM
#1
Posts: 378
18 Jul 2021, 15:53 PM
#2
Posts: 1954
-Is this ability balanced?
-Is this ability worth the muni cost for what it accomplishes?
-Is this ability in line with similar off map aircraft call ins?
-For me, I used it in 2 games and it appeared to have no effect on tanks or infantry and I didn't lose sight. Is your experience different?
Lets discuss this
I do not have replays, I will try to capture replays show-casing this ability.
It used to be badly OP. Now it seems really so-so since it was nerfed. It feels a lot like the IL2 loiter, which sometimes does something but often seems like a waste of munitions. In both cases, I'd rather just build a bunch of mines.
The rest of the commander is really good, especially if your opponents don't bother to pick a howitzer counter.
18 Jul 2021, 19:25 PM
#3
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
It feels a lot like the IL2 loiter, which sometimes does something but often seems like a waste of munitions. In both cases, I'd rather just build a bunch of mines.
counter.
The loiter is really good against infantry
sad that they basically removed it out of all soviet commanders, except armored assault
the coh2.org forum experience:
18 Jul 2021, 20:08 PM
#4
Posts: 1954
The loiter is really good against infantry
sad that they basically removed it out of all soviet commanders, except armored assault
It's also in Advanced warfare still, but that commander needs some TLC. I haven't had good luck with it. There's usually 2-3 OKW players in a 4v4 who can make it go away with the click of a button on their Schwerer. TBH, I haven't used it a lot lately as I normally pick something with a howitzer counter.
18 Jul 2021, 20:26 PM
#5
Posts: 772
It is very strong. This is basically a "pay muni to roll over the enemy" ability. Wrecks armor very well, while suppressing everything. The only counter is AA, which is OK to build it team games, but a debatable investment in 1v1, imo.
So for the muni you get vehicle killer and infantry suppresser. Pretty much a deadly 'propaganda' because it forces a mass retreat.
So for the muni you get vehicle killer and infantry suppresser. Pretty much a deadly 'propaganda' because it forces a mass retreat.
18 Jul 2021, 20:30 PM
#6
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Not sure why people think it's a "so-so" or mediocre ability. You make a push and slap this ontop of it and it wins literally any armor engagement.
19 Jul 2021, 00:52 AM
#7
Posts: 1954
Not sure why people think it's a "so-so" or mediocre ability. You make a push and slap this ontop of it and it wins literally any armor engagement.
Are you talking about the IL2 or Sector Assault? The IL2 does practically no damage to armor. Sector assault can but IIRC, you have to maintain vision for it to work.
19 Jul 2021, 02:47 AM
#8
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Are you talking about the IL2 or Sector Assault? The IL2 does practically no damage to armor. Sector assault can but IIRC, you have to maintain vision for it to work.
talking about sector assualt. Honestly IL-2 loiter isn't terrible but it also IMO needs to be used in the correct scenarios, otherwise it feels poor.
Yeah sector assualt needs vision but only for a second for the planes to pick a target, which should be really easy to achieve.
19 Jul 2021, 03:44 AM
#9
Posts: 1954
talking about sector assualt. Honestly IL-2 loiter isn't terrible but it also IMO needs to be used in the correct scenarios, otherwise it feels poor.
Yeah sector assualt needs vision but only for a second for the planes to pick a target, which should be really easy to achieve.
I just tried the IL-2 loiter. It was a little ironic that after saying it was really so-so, I used it twice to save an IS-2. It doesn't do loads of damage but the suppression is enough to allow even a snared IS-2 to limp away from a shrek squad.
19 Jul 2021, 06:21 AM
#10
Posts: 378
Not sure why people think it's a "so-so" or mediocre ability. You make a push and slap this ontop of it and it wins literally any armor engagement.
When was the last time you tested this ability?
It is very strong. This is basically a "pay muni to roll over the enemy" ability. Wrecks armor very well, while suppressing everything. The only counter is AA, which is OK to build it team games, but a debatable investment in 1v1, imo.
So for the muni you get vehicle killer and infantry suppresser. Pretty much a deadly 'propaganda' because it forces a mass retreat.
When was the last time you tested this ability?
It could be bugged, but I used it twice in two games, with sight over armour and infantry, it did nothing. Planes flew in, I had complete sight with stealthed jaeger.
Is it possible it is not working?
As a Sov main, I run Armoured Assault and Advanced Warfare since the 4ppsh cons on last patch, I don't play large team game so multiple schwerer not a problem for me, and the IL-2 Loiter is amazing against infantry, and especially at guns to support an armoured push, it is amazing to me even for 200. I miss that it also no longer kills tanks too though
19 Jul 2021, 07:13 AM
#11
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I just tried the IL-2 loiter. It was a little ironic that after saying it was really so-so, I used it twice to save an IS-2. It doesn't do loads of damage but the suppression is enough to allow even a snared IS-2 to limp away from a shrek squad.
Didn't even know it had suppression. Just tested it and after looking at it, I'm not sure I'd call it worth 180 munitions, but it is a loiter so I guess it's pretty insane if there's no AA present.
When was the last time you tested this ability?
Just tested it, and since I play 80% allies in teamgames, I'm on the receving end more than I'd like to be. In my experience, and from the tests I just did, it's working fine. Skillplanes can often be inconsistant depending on how many hits they land, sometimes doing almost nothing to targets moving fast or landing all hits occassionally. Most of the time though they contribute their fair share without going in and wiping the floor with your opponent. I know once I see sector assault once I get AA if I haven't already and if I'm brits I put EWS on everything. The extra speed from EWS really can negate the damage sometimes.
19 Jul 2021, 12:07 PM
#12
Posts: 772
When was the last time you tested this ability?
I've lost several very close game precisely because of this ability. Pretty much OKW just pushes with armor and forces you to give up your position. If you lucky you can get unscrached, but often planes deal ~300 damage and can easily finish off bruised armor.
Here is a cast where the OKW pretty much picked the doctrine at ~20ish minutes just to have this ability. He did not build JLI, no goliath, haven't seen any use of "For the Fatherland" and of course no LeFH.
So, yes, it is an effective ability. If it were not, Scavange would have been more popular choice, then it is currently.
19 Jul 2021, 22:46 PM
#13
Posts: 449
This and Airborne Assault are broken 90% of the time for me, while the Ostheer Stuka AT loiter works just fine. I don't know why.
20 Jul 2021, 03:15 AM
#14
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
It used to be badly OP. Now it seems really so-so since it was nerfed. It feels a lot like the IL2 loiter, which sometimes does something but often seems like a waste of munitions. In both cases, I'd rather just build a bunch of mines.
I don't know. I feel like it always does something even if it doesn't kill anything. Since it's anti everything it basically guarantees you map control unless you have AA and want to roll the dice with staying in the circle. (probably a bad idea in most cases as anyone with half a brain will have a tank dive ready to follow up the off map with) I feel like the cost increase made it more balanced in that it's less spammable but the "anti-everything" is bad design IMO. So yes, definitely worth the munitions and I would say mostly balanced in terms of cost to performance ratio but still pretty lame to play against.
20 Jul 2021, 04:35 AM
#15
Posts: 1954
I don't know. I feel like it always does something even if it doesn't kill anything. Since it's anti everything it basically guarantees you map control unless you have AA and want to roll the dice with staying in the circle. (probably a bad idea in most cases as anyone with half a brain will have a tank dive ready to follow up the off map with) I feel like the cost increase made it more balanced in that it's less spammable but the "anti-everything" is bad design IMO. So yes, definitely worth the munitions and I would say mostly balanced in terms of cost to performance ratio but still pretty lame to play against.
When I use it, maybe the first time it is helpful. After that, everyone watches the minimap and somebody builds a quad. I haven't tried it since the quad nerf so maybe it's better now.
20 Jul 2021, 07:41 AM
#16
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
All of the attack loiters are stupid abilities. The anti-everything ones are just extra dumb
They are brainless abilities in team games, cause your floating crazy muni in some matches so the cost stops being a balancing factor
It's too late to change them cause you'd have to rebalance all the commanders again. Just hope they are way less of thing in coh3, replace them all with strafes and runs
They are brainless abilities in team games, cause your floating crazy muni in some matches so the cost stops being a balancing factor
It's too late to change them cause you'd have to rebalance all the commanders again. Just hope they are way less of thing in coh3, replace them all with strafes and runs
20 Jul 2021, 16:54 PM
#17
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
When I use it, maybe the first time it is helpful. After that, everyone watches the minimap and somebody builds a quad. I haven't tried it since the quad nerf so maybe it's better now.
To be fair team game wise I only play 2s so it's more likely that the team doesn't get any AA. In that way I think overall it's a mostly balanced ability that still has the potential to be situationally very useful.
20 Jul 2021, 18:03 PM
#18
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
The ability seems way better than any of the other loiter planes. The damage against tanks comes in very fast and seems to be consistently very high. The AI element is ok. IMO it needs a slight nerf.
21 Jul 2021, 11:31 AM
#19
Posts: 213
The ability seems way better than any of the other loiter planes. The damage against tanks comes in very fast and seems to be consistently very high. The AI element is ok. IMO it needs a slight nerf.
+1
This ability allows you to autowin any armor fight without any effort. You get pushed? Press overwatch. You want to push? Press overwatch.
The planes arrive too fast. Most of the time you cant react that fast and AA doesnt work against the first strike.
21 Jul 2021, 17:14 PM
#20
Posts: 1660
Here is a cast where the OKW pretty much picked the doctrine at ~20ish minutes just to have this ability. He did not build JLI, no goliath, haven't seen any use of "For the Fatherland" and of course no LeFH.
This is not uncommon for many doctrines, players can go whole matches without choosing a doctrine until the end.
The only effective use of the ability was when JibberJabberJobber got its 2 shermans at half health stuck blocking each others pathing and colliding with the munition cut off flag, and he still managed to save 1 of the 2 by retreating in time.
So, yes, it is an effective ability. If it were not, Scavange would have been more popular choice, then it is currently.
Scavenge would be a good doctrine if it didn't have an Ostwind 30 fuel away from OKW Tier 4 and 20 munition for the mediocre repair kits EFA cons get for free
A slower sector assault exists, it's airborne assault and it's a certified waste of munitions that 90% of the time doesn't even work
Are loiters supposed to be area denial or are they supposed to attack and damage and support an attack like il-2 attacks? Because if that's the case both are working as intended, as you'll need to react fast and move armor away/hit retreat to avoid considerable damage.
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