Top level player allegedly maphacking in CoH2

but in last shot even replay show it likely to hit a ground not T70 but it still does a full damage to t70.

The vehicle can still take damage from missed shots if the AOE damage penetrates, my assumption is that's what happened here, though I admit to not being an expert. It's just that the shot didn't "hit" the T-70, so an accuracy calculation either wasn't done, or didn't succeed... In either case the shot doesn't curve.

I've been running some tests.

First of all, random note, vehicles apparently do not always appear in the FOW when they get hit. It seems completely random. But just as often they stay invisible. No idea why.


Second of all, a vet 1 Pak 40 does not have a high enough fire rate to manually target a vehicle that got lid up by a previous attack ground shot.

Yes, but it would give him all the information he needed to take a follow up attack ground. The fall of the hit by the little shed there could just be scatter from a shot in the same place, or maybe he assumed that the opponent would back up the T70 after the connecting hit and he adjusted for that, nothing in that clip seems remarkable.

Yes, but it would give him all the information he needed to take a follow up attack ground. The fall of the hit by the little shed there could just be scatter from a shot in the same place, or maybe he assumed that the opponent would back up the T70 after the connecting hit and he adjusted for that, nothing in that clip seems remarkable.

Yes, but the point was that the shot seemed to curve which is only possible with a directly targeted shot. Which in turn would be impossible under normal circumstances, because the Pak 40 can't fire a second shot before the FoW reveal from the first shot wears off (tested). But as I said before, it's entirely possible that the curve is just a camera angle or replay illusion.

I suspect the curve is just an illusion, because the shot seems to miss and deal AOE damage rather than being a direct pen.

Rather than focusing on this example, i would rather ask to those from Germany, what's the usual input lag?

according to google there are maphacks available since 2019

Rather than focusing on this example, i would rather ask to those from Germany, what's the usual input lag?

Having a high input lag would make some of the clips /more/ suspicious, wouldn't it? Particularly if it's combined with desynching and being "behind" the action, with how quickly some of these "reactions" would need to be.

It appears seeking has 5 different map hacks that all have the right hacking tools at the right time. In one game he can directly shoot non-attack ground shots at things outside its line of sight but a cloaked sniper in range of units cant be shot at for some reason... but cloaked at guns obviously can, makes sense.


Just activate the right maphack for each game ez

What if his name is a cruel joke? Seeking
The Seekingguy...

See King
See
King
He is king at seeing.

It appears seeking has 5 different map hacks that all have the right hacking tools at the right time. In one game he can directly shoot non-attack ground shots at things outside its line of sight but a cloaked sniper in range of units cant be shot at for some reason... but cloaked at guns obviously can, makes sense.


Just activate the right maphack for each game ez

I'm not totally sold on the "Hacking" accusation at the moment, though I think this is a little misrepresentative.

The only thing that's really being suggested is that he might have some sort of cheat that lets him see where units are in the FoW (Either on the main map, minimap, or Tacmap), which would fit all of the situations that are being described. Whether or not he acts on information he /might/ (Again, I am not totally convinced) in a given scenario is kind of beside the point.

Except the idea that he can directly target units in the FoW, which is something I think only one person is suggesting, and there doesn't actually seem to be anything actually indicating that except the idea that one PAK shot in one video "Curved" (Despite it A: Not curving, and B: Not even hitting the target, so it couldnt curve even if it was directly targetted)

What if his name is a cruel joke? Seeking
The Seekingguy...

See King
See
King
He is king at seeing.

Surprising nobody, the player KoreanMapHack was actually a guy maphacking from Korea.

Having a high input lag would make some of the clips /more/ suspicious, wouldn't it? Particularly if it's combined with desynching and being "behind" the action, with how quickly some of these "reactions" would need to be.

Indeed.

I didn't watch the whole stream but from what i remember from 2 clips, he basically said he LITERALLY saw the squads and therefore acted upon that (even though the replay doesn't show it). It's the AssG sprint part and the cancelling of the Volks sandbag. Not sure if there are more.

It appears seeking has 5 different map hacks that all have the right hacking tools at the right time. In one game he can directly shoot non-attack ground shots at things outside its line of sight but a cloaked sniper in range of units cant be shot at for some reason... but cloaked at guns obviously can, makes sense.


Just activate the right maphack for each game ez

Since you are from the same country, do you think it's possible to react that fast?

The important thing to note in the 'curved' shot is:
13:14 the t70 was lit up from the ground attack.
13:16 the t70 vanishes from FOW.
13:18 The AT shoots.

Does this say that it took nearly 2 seconds for the AT to decide to shoot, send it to the server, and get a response back? Then play out the animation of shooting? Since the t70 was invis for nearly 2s before the shot.

The AT gun shoots every 4 seconds?

This is what I keep trying to say: The game client lags and plays out one way and then tries to catch up to what the server is saying a second later. So if one player is lagging behind you may get weird things happening.

That is why when I play, the enemy mortars are following my units around the map. I lagged for a sec so the server assumed I was not moving, then the mortars curve all over and rekt my moving units no where near where the mortar was shooting.

Indeed.

I didn't watch the whole stream but from what i remember from 2 clips, he basically said he LITERALLY saw the squads and therefore acted upon that (even though the replay doesn't show it). It's the AssG sprint part and the cancelling of the Volks sandbag. Not sure if there are more.

Some of those sorts of clips are pretty hard to gauge, honestly. There's some disagreement on precisely how accurate replays are in terms of FoW (Though I haven't seen much to indicated that it's fantastically desynched).

Being generous, the fastest you should see one of his units "react" to something coming into view would be (200~ms + input delay), with the 200ms being the average (single stimulus) reaction time. For clips like the Volks stopping constructing sandbags, he's clearly faster than that, but if the FoW on his end wasn't the same as what we see on the replay, it... could be possible?

There's also the possibility in that particular case that he just stopped the sandbags because he got cold feet and was expecting the Paths to arrive soon... but he outright stated he reacted, so that option's out.


I'd really like to know exactly how accurate replays are, but I dont think there have been any thorough stress tests done.

Snip

Again, yeah, this particular instance with the T-70 really doesn't show what its being suggested to show. The shot doesn't connect with the T-70, and it doesn't even seem to visually curve from what I can see. This particular instance is not indicative of some sort of "Targeting hack", in my opinion.

Since you are from the same country, do you think it's possible to react that fast?

The better question is how much lag does the replay have. For instance if that is Nicko and he is in Russia how far behind was he from Seeking.

I always talk about playing with Ishtari who is in Sweden. Ish yells out "Rosbone your grens!". I hear this thru Discord and say back "What they are safe?" Then "Oh no they are gonna get rekt."

Ishtari is playing at least 2 seconds ahead of me in real time. I am playing in the past.

We need some tests done where two people play and record the match thru OBS from different parts of the world. But the clocks may still be off so the people need to be in Discord chatting at the same time for a reference point.

This is what I keep trying to say: The game client lags and plays out one way and then tries to catch up to what the server is saying a second later. So if one player is lagging behind you may get weird things happening.

????

bruh

Your game settings are probably too high and your game is lagging. I have never heard of anyone playing in the past. What's next? Schrödinger's cat and the many worlds interpretation on how the best decision is made before spotting units in fog of war?

Since you are from the same country, do you think it's possible to react that fast?

Generally, yes. In all clips about the edge of the los and seekings fast reaction the main focus was on the unit, probably selected already and a very fast reaction like shown is possible (which is just muscle memory, thers no need no think about what to do)
Input lag is on/off, some germans have it some dont, some can fix it with vpn some dont so i have no idea how this would inluence these situations.

The problem is that Seeking started reacting before he had los which is either a hack or replay inconsistency.
Assuming Seeking says the truth about him being able to spot the units unlike shown in the clips on the edge of the fow the fast reaction possible without input lag.

I wonder if its possible to have replay inconsistency cause the opposing player saved the replay instead of seeking?

My best guess:
The smoke animation is curved and makes it look curved.

Generally, yes. In all clips about the edge of the los and seekings fast reaction the main focus was on the unit, probably selected already and a very fast reaction like shown is possible (which is just muscle memory, thers no need no think about what to do)
Input lag is on/off, some germans have it some dont, some can fix it with vpn some dont so i have no idea how this would inluence these situations.

The problem is that Seeking started reacting before he had los which is either a hack or replay inconsistency.
Assuming Seeking says the truth about him being able to spot the units unlike shown in the clips on the edge of the fow the fast reaction possible without input lag.

I wonder if its possible to have replay inconsistency cause the opposing player saved the replay instead of seeking?

There's a bare minimum amount of input lag that literally any player will have simply due to how networking functions, and there's 1/5th of a second (or thereabouts) of reaction time to take into account, even if Seeking has "very fast reactions". If the replay isnt significantly desynched, then I don't think it's a reasonable thing for him to have "Reacted" to. FoW would have to be quite different in the replay to how it was in the live game for it to really make sense.

If there's an inconsistency with the replay, I'd have thought it more logical that the opposing player would appear to react slightly /slower/ than they "actually" did, rather than more quickly?

I think we need more data points/a thorough examination of Replays to know for sure one way or another tbh.

My best guess:
The smoke animation is curved and makes it look curved.

Yeah, that's all I'm seeing here too, at best. Again, shots simply don't "curve" unless they've actually hit an unit through an accuracy roll, so it's kind of a moot point since it DIDN'T HIT THE t-70.

Generally, yes. In all clips about the edge of the los and seekings fast reaction the main focus was on the unit, probably selected already and a very fast reaction like shown is possible (which is just muscle memory, thers no need no think about what to do)
Input lag is on/off, some germans have it some dont, some can fix it with vpn some dont so i have no idea how this would inluence these situations.

The problem is that Seeking started reacting before he had los which is either a hack or replay inconsistency.
Assuming Seeking says the truth about him being able to spot the units unlike shown in the clips on the edge of the fow the fast reaction possible without input lag.

I wonder if its possible to have replay inconsistency cause the opposing player saved the replay instead of seeking?

I'm not talking about the egregious cases which plague German players during the last months. I'm talking about the normal effects cause by the ingame input lag + the physical distance between Germany and USA ping. Add normal human time reaction to visual stimulus.

So it's basically around 0.200ms + whatever delay you get from the game. IIRC that's around 0.500ms/0.700ms for someone in UK.

I'm not talking about the egregious cases which plague German players during the last months. I'm talking about the normal effects cause by the ingame input lag + the physical distance between Germany and USA ping. Add normal human time reaction to visual stimulus.

So it's basically around 0.200ms + whatever delay you get from the game. IIRC that's around 0.500ms/0.700ms for someone in UK.

I never tested my input lag, dont know anything about ping or any related numbers... i only care if i can play the game on any given day or not so i cant answer your question. All i know is that very fast reactions are possible.