So is 5 man grens completely useless now

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:35 AMKatitof

Or, now listen to me carefully, it was a fucking MESS to balance 871 infantry armor types against 500 different damage types while every single infantry unit had a completely different amount of health on top of that.

CoH1 was balance mess and a nightmare.
This is why CoH1 is horribly imbalanced up until this day and was never anywhere near being balanced.
Sure, it was in better state then CoH2 during its first 2 years, but after that it and its messy balance were left so far behind, some people struggle to remember how much of a nightmare it was.

There was no RTS game in existence prior or post CoH1 which had as many different types of damage and armor and it was impossible to wrap your head around getting to know what does what.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 16:31 PMGachiGasm

At least Allies A-moving inf arent awaible as early.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 16:31 PMGachiGasm

5-men grens were bad design chose to begin with. And speaking of their perfomance, they were indeed very cancerous especially in team games, because of how easy they was to just A-move and blob.

At least Allies A-moving inf arent awaible as early.

But my point is, whole idea of 5 men grens are bad, I would have rather see 5-men pios and VLS giving something else but not the 5th model.

And honestly, if as Ostheer, you want AI on your inf, then you better stick with PGs G43. They are borderline OP in terms of AI power + there are few really nice commanders with G43 in them.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 18:51 PMThamor

lol, if you want to nitpick that actually you get faster upgrades on your allies. But of course you don't understand this as I think you never play OST. Allies butthurt here too much that they can't instant wipe with single grenade anymore grenadiers. My opinions still is for 60 ammo, the upgrade should give 5 man with G43 and free medikit. Remove all the other bonuses, that is already very balanced. It's not like this is core tech like allies can always get in any commander, this is in one single commander.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 20:17 PMGachiGasm

Faster upgrades on allies. Mkay. So rifles are always able to get double bar\lmg by the time you can get VSL. UKF can get double bren+bolster faster then you can get VSL as ost. This is what you are saying right? Because in case of an LMG upgrade, which puts you somewhat on the even ground vs tommy\rifles, VSL skyrockets grens combat perfomance over the vannila rifles\tommy perfomance. Soviets dont even have upgrades, aside from SVT in 1 commander and PPSH which become usefull only on vet 3 cons.

Instead of your babyranging and pointing fingers of fanboyism I suggest you to play the game outside 4v4 Axis.

And on a side note, you dont even understand how VSL works, if you suggest to remove all bonuses but keep everything else as it is.
Bonuses it provides, are the excact reason why VSL damage out-put is getting nerfed. Because guess what, if G43 in your world is so strong by itself (and the 5th model is a standant grenadier model), why G43 on grens is utter trash of an upgrade.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 21:47 PMThamor

Wow touched a nerve there.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 21:47 PMThamor

And if you think only double weapon upgrade on allied infantry (UKF,US) is enough to compete, think you should play more 1v1 or 2v2 and not blob in 4v4 yourself. 1x Bren, Bar or US lmg already competes and does better damage vs VSL if the RA is removed.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 21:47 PMThamor

What I am against is giving to long-range infantry STG model for 60 munitions. I have read the patch notes and only thing agree there is the received accuracy bonus needed nerfing. I think you are not understanding what I am saying and what is even talked here.

Jump back to quoted post28 Jan 2021, 11:35 AMKatitof

Or, now listen to me carefully, it was a fucking MESS to balance 871 infantry armor types against 500 different damage types while every single infantry unit had a completely different amount of health on top of that.

CoH1 was balance mess and a nightmare.
This is why CoH1 is horribly imbalanced up until this day and was never anywhere near being balanced.
Sure, it was in better state then CoH2 during its first 2 years, but after that it and its messy balance were left so far behind, some people struggle to remember how much of a nightmare it was.

There was no RTS game in existence prior or post CoH1 which had as many different types of damage and armor and it was impossible to wrap your head around getting to know what does what.

Jump back to quoted post29 Jan 2021, 02:55 AMPip

Vcoh1 is a terribly unbalanced mess of a game. It's a superior single player experience to 2 (Arguable if you look at Ardennes Assault (When it isnt bugged)) But CoH2 is a far superior game in terms of playability and balance on the multiplayer front.

"Vcoh2" isnt relevant, as that is a day long past. The current balance of the game, and the current balance of CoH1 is what should be looked at.

Jump back to quoted post29 Jan 2021, 01:32 AMmrgame2

coh1 was fun and 'balanced' enough to play 2v2.

Jump back to quoted post29 Jan 2021, 04:11 AMmrgame2

kangeroo + piat /wub.

to be fair, relic stop tweaking the game.

my point was vcoh is superior to vcoh2.
coh1 has more stats options which leads to more possibilities which is good imo

Jump back to quoted post26 Jan 2021, 06:17 AMSupport Sapper

To be fair, i believe changing vls from a g43 to a stg is on a good direction at least, it make the upgrade more unique compare to G43 upgrade and also moving away from tapping models, which it should be, like with the section change. And sander already said that further adjustments will be done if needed, namely tweak for the stg's profile.

Maybe let the upgrade replace rifle nade with a hand thrown nade like pfusi ?