I personally feel like AEC is a bit too strong early game, but it’s value decreases with the length of the game. The only thing which saves it’s lategame is treadshot and a fact it is the best unit to be designated as a command one (doctrinal only), because it is weak enough to not regret making this decision. Early game it completely shuts a vehicle play from OST and it’s not threatened until P4 hits the field. OKW has a Puma, but it comes later as well as Puma is not much needed when there is no enemy vehicle on the field.
Let’s begin with the timing of the vehicle. Rushed AEC requires 560/105. Meanwhile, OST rushing 222 is 450/90 and 530/100 with T1, which is needed against UKF. OKW Puma costs 590/130, but it’s fine as Puma performs better. What bothers me the most is a fact that OST light game is nonexistent when an AEC hits the field.
Second one is it’s performance. Both have 120 damage, but a Puma has 160 pen vs AEC’s 120, and the most important, Puma has 50 range while AEC has only 40, so it can’t be used as a poking vehicle against meds. On vet 3 both Pumas get +40 damage, making them an effective platform against more advanced vehicles. On the other side, AEC cannot be used this way as any medium is able to return fire. While both AEC and Puma have the same speed, Puma is more mobile and micro friendly due to better acceleration and rotation. While at vet 2 favors the AEC in terms of mobility, Puma gets better gunhandling stats and they become equal at vet 3, as well as Puma gets a standarized damage pattern, which is 160. By softstats they are both 18 size (AEC gets a 20% reduction vet 2), AEC has slightly better moving penalty (0.6 vs 0.5), In terms of accuracy, an AEC is slightly better at long range. AEC has more armor (45 vs 25). While it doesn’t mean much late game, it is almost invulnerable to small arms and AP rounds, making OST a hard time dealing with it. Also it’s high armor make AEC an effective coax MG platform, as it cannot be bothered by small arms. My point is to make AEC less threatening early game, while keeping it’s value in late game.
So my proposal is to:
Reduce damage to 80 and armor to 20, making it more vulnerable to small arms/API rounds/222’s
Moving treadshot to vet 1
Vet 2 gives +20% pen (remove -20% target size)
Vet 3 now grants +40 dmg and 10 range
Unlocking Command post now gives a buff +40 dmg
Cost from 280/60 to 300/70
It may provide a safer game for OST light vehicles, while making AEC an investment into late game rather than nobrainer move to buy safety from vehicles until 15 min mark.
TL;DR: nerf AEC early to emphasize LV plays from OST, but buff it’s late by making it a rudimentary TD capable of threatening mediums, because UKF lacks medium TD (except doctrinal M10)
My first post here so sorry if I did something wrong.
Current state of an AEC
28 Aug 2020, 20:58 PM
#1
Posts: 3
28 Aug 2020, 21:31 PM
#2
Posts: 955
Not sure about that
It doesnt fully shut down LV play, just like Puma doesnt
They cant be everywhere at once and their mobility is offset by atrocious pathing
Besides its extremely inaccurate
You can always just wait until they are repairing or out of position
And nerfing it might create another hole in Brits design
If I see any problem with it, it would be the tread break ability. These things shouldnt be in the game and if they are, at least not at this much strenght. Something focused on crippling opponents DPS would be more fair then denying them ability to move and escape
It doesnt fully shut down LV play, just like Puma doesnt
They cant be everywhere at once and their mobility is offset by atrocious pathing
Besides its extremely inaccurate
You can always just wait until they are repairing or out of position
And nerfing it might create another hole in Brits design
If I see any problem with it, it would be the tread break ability. These things shouldnt be in the game and if they are, at least not at this much strenght. Something focused on crippling opponents DPS would be more fair then denying them ability to move and escape
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
28 Aug 2020, 21:38 PM
#3
Posts: 282
It just does come too early: if you rush it you can spawn it at the same time the 222 come.
 | Playercard of [DGM] Cain Le Roi Du Pétrole | |||||||||||||||
|
28 Aug 2020, 22:30 PM
#4
Posts: 3
It's not a nerf, more like a rework and I think it would be nice for every faction. Axis could roam more freely with LV's and Brits would have a unit that fill the gap for a light TD which is useful on it's own late game, not only the ablilities. Currenty it can only serve as a snare and mobile smoke dispenser (+ designate CV but it's doctrinal so I'm not emphasizing much on it)
1 Sep 2020, 08:16 AM
#5
Posts: 2243
the AEC is a relic from coh2 where brits had no snares (AT nades/ mines) to deal with LV and tanks.
thats why they get:
- a sniper which can damaged armor, and critical shot
- a super early AEC which is good until p4 hit the field
- a very fast setup AT gun which never misses
- nondoc piats at all squads available
- a bofors which can deal even with p4
- a 17pounder aka pak43 clone...nondoc
- and son one (great firefly etc)
but now? they get snares and mines. They even can get now squad which has snares and double piats at the same time (strong has hell)
so you shut down their weakness..but let them stay on all advantages.
so yes: nerv the super early AEC by timing and take away the nondoc 17pounder)
thats why they get:
- a sniper which can damaged armor, and critical shot
- a super early AEC which is good until p4 hit the field
- a very fast setup AT gun which never misses
- nondoc piats at all squads available
- a bofors which can deal even with p4
- a 17pounder aka pak43 clone...nondoc
- and son one (great firefly etc)
but now? they get snares and mines. They even can get now squad which has snares and double piats at the same time (strong has hell)
so you shut down their weakness..but let them stay on all advantages.
so yes: nerv the super early AEC by timing and take away the nondoc 17pounder)
1 Sep 2020, 11:23 AM
#6
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
so you shut down their weakness..but let them stay on all advantages.
Well yes, but actually no.
- Sniper critical shot is temporary and not slowing down the vehicle. It need vet and is dangerous to use.
- 6 pounder only set up fast with vet 1 and it lost it accuracy bonus from long ago.
- We all know PIAT will 9/10 time end up on sapper and it is nowhere near shreck. The snare and PIAT both on a squad is another issue.
- Bofors can deal with P4 nowday ??? Seriously ???
- Emplacements in general is close meaninglessness and the 17ib is no exception.
- Firefly is the best heavy TD design-wide, with clear streng and weakness.
Still, i do agree that AEC need to be looked at.
1 Sep 2020, 11:43 AM
#7
Posts: 518
- Emplacements in general is close meaninglessness and the 17ib is no exception.
Wouldn't say that. In 2 vs 2 a 17 pounder can still work at level 13 ( thats the best I can get in 2 vs 2 :/ ) , although not on every map( on poltawa it can lock down mid quite well imo ) .
Also it still works far better than a Pak 43 ( yes ... it can't shoot through buildings without using a ammo costly ability, but at least it doesn't die to 1 mortar shell )
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
Playing with randoms
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.
u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.
I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you
1 Sep 2020, 13:45 PM
#8
Posts: 177
I hate how the new AEC got it's AI damage buffed making it no brainer jack of all trades in 1v1 instead of its supposed role of grade-A early AT that can scale to the late game. The reason for AI as far as I remember was need to be able to chase snipers but it should have been done by just implementing heavier antisniper modifiers instead of giving it vastly improved all around AI.
2 Sep 2020, 09:03 AM
#9
Posts: 2243
Well yes, but actually no.
- Sniper critical shot is temporary and not slowing down the vehicle. It need vet and is dangerous to use.
- 6 pounder only set up fast with vet 1 and it lost it accuracy bonus from long ago.
- We all know PIAT will 9/10 time end up on sapper and it is nowhere near shreck. The snare and PIAT both on a squad is another issue.
- Bofors can deal with P4 nowday ??? Seriously ???
- Emplacements in general is close meaninglessness and the 17ib is no exception.
- Firefly is the best heavy TD design-wide, with clear streng and weakness.
Still, i do agree that AEC need to be looked at.
- sniper use vs armor is not this high risk like you try to act here. it is very useable when an enemy over extent you get a critical shot
- 6 pounder is very good..one of the best AT gun in game. so dont act like its weak..even more when you think about the all the other AT ability from brits
- a sapper alone can bring down a overextend P4...panzergrens dont have a snare and miss from midrange a lot.
- deal doesn't mean a bofors kill a p4 by its self. it means it can hold a lot vs p4 ...for such a long time that you have all the time to react and even make not this bad dmg
- "Emplacements in general is close meaninglessness" what are talking about? if this would be true, so many player wouldn't complain about them.
- what is the weakness of the firefly? In the right hands it is a massive AT tool with little weakness. But when u fail with it..its mostly your own failure. don't let it alone and don't let it get circled
2 Sep 2020, 12:18 PM
#10
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
- sniper use vs armor is not this high risk like you try to act here. it is very useable when an enemy over extent you get a critical shot
Im not acting anything, THERE ARE RISK using sniper again amour, as i said "dangerous". It require vet and asking for a lot of micro want to use on the front. And event if he make the shot, all he can do is a temporary effect that not event slowdown the tank. It does deal snare again light but all other faction have 10 time easier snare vs light, and By your logic if enemy is over extenting then almost everything is "useable"
- 6 pounder is very good..one of the best AT gun in game. so dont act like its weak..even more when you think about the all the other AT ability from brits
Dont put words into my mounth, when did i say that the 6 ib is weak ? You are the one who said the 6 ib is "a very fast setup AT gun which never misses", which is simply wrong and i just point it out. It USED TO HAVE an accuracy bonus again light vehicle bit lost it for a good long time. It is basically a Pak clone with different vet 1, end of the story.
- a sapper alone can bring down a overextend P4...panzergrens dont have a snare and miss from midrange a lot.
Sapper alone take down P4 from full HP ??? with out any support ??? are we playing the same game ? or the P4 player is AFK ?
- deal doesn't mean a bofors kill a p4 by its self. it means it can hold a lot vs p4 ...for such a long time that you have all the time to react and even make not this bad dmg
If you mean "deal with" is like that then It's like saying T4 can deal with cromwell, sherman and t34, which is true.
- "Emplacements in general is close meaninglessness" what are talking about? if this would be true, so many player wouldn't complain about them.
And you are among those complainer ? The 17ib can get a coupe of shoot in the fist contact but after that, nothing will be in it range as long as the other player have a brain and any single off map/indirect will drop on it till it's dead.
- what is the weakness of the firefly? In the right hands it is a massive AT tool with little weakness. But when u fail with it..its mostly your own failure. don't let it alone and don't let it get circled
FF weakness include: Slow reload, slow rotation, low mobility, require many care and support. It is speciallized to fight again heavy amour with high dmg and pen, but less effective vs light and fast target due to slow rof and rotation. It can easily be out flanked and kill if out of position.
Again, you are making your own story and put it into my mouth, i never say anything about FF being weak or i have any problem with it, i point out that it have a good (intended) design.
4 Sep 2020, 18:09 PM
#11
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
but now? they get snares and mines.
They always had mines. What are you talking about?
And they only get snares on the engineer, that's not the same as having them on mainline infantry....
They even can get now squad which has snares and double piats at the same time (strong has hell)
And they don't get them on their mainline infantry.... Getting them on sappers is not an advantage, stop it.
Rifleman have been able to get zooks with their snare since launch, and the AT rifle nade gets extra range with vet.
so yes: nerv the super early AEC by timing and take away the nondoc 17pounder)
Wtf are you talking about the 17 pounder for? You just turning this into your own personal wishlist for nerfing the brits? Can you at least try to hide your bias once in a while?
At most you could increase the build time of the AEC a little. But not by much, it's not that big of a deal
7 Sep 2020, 13:55 PM
#12
Posts: 2243
They always had mines. What are you talking about?
And they only get snares on the engineer, that's not the same as having them on mainline infantry....
And they don't get them on their mainline infantry.... Getting them on sappers is not an advantage, stop it.
Rifleman have been able to get zooks with their snare since launch, and the AT rifle nade gets extra range with vet.
Wtf are you talking about the 17 pounder for? You just turning this into your own personal wishlist for nerfing the brits? Can you at least try to hide your bias once in a while?
At most you could increase the build time of the AEC a little. But not by much, it's not that big of a deal
It would be a disadvantage to equip the Rilfes with double zook. Only noobs do that. You want a cheap squad for double zook. like rear echelon. But wait! brits get their cheapest squad with double piats and even a snare! so this 200mp sqaud can kill your p4 alone: piats salve > nade > finish it.
seems you need to play the game right..or look replay from tournaments where exactly this happen several times.
7 Sep 2020, 14:05 PM
#13
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
seems you need to play the game right..or look replay from tournaments where exactly this happen several times.
I didn't say it was bad. I just said it's not OP like you think it is, nor is it an advantage. Again, they get them on sappers INSTEAD of their mainline. That's not a bonus....
You should never be telling anyone how to play the game. You literally just made something up. If you ever played anything but axis you would know the brits always had mines
7 Sep 2020, 21:55 PM
#14
Posts: 888
Double schrek Panzergrens. They arrive so damn early that's literally all you need for OST and AEC along with all other LVs aren't even in the equation anymore.
OKW is harder but you have Raketenwerfers so that's something.
OKW is harder but you have Raketenwerfers so that's something.
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