Riflemen and M1919.

How does the statistic translate in-game? Because here again nickpicking one stat to define a unit doesn't really show anything.
The pz4 is good vs infantry, the sherman HE is better indeed but it doesn't matter for the pz4? It remains good vs infantry.

So for having a better than good tank vs infantry, what counter-parts are there, because if statistic help understand the funcion of a unit, it matter much less in game once all pieces are on the table.

Let's take an example here, the PUMA is bad vs infantry as per its stat but what if there are no counter available to it or no other unit equal to it for the next 10 minutes to be build. Wouldn't you build it everytime to fight infantry? No counter, nothing can harm it, stat wouldn't matter at all here unless you remove entirely its MGs.

Let's take another example, what is better between having a better than good AI tank but no AT support available to defend it or a simple good AI tank but enough AT support around it to make it uncontested where it stand.

So to come back to the Pz4 vs ShermanHE, the comparison isn't really about stat because both units are good vs infantry in the same way but how is supposely established the situation in the game the moment they hit the field. A shermanHE that hit the field facing a dual pak40 or dual raketen isn't going to be as effective as a Pz4 that face a single stuart. Does the extra AI damage compensate it?
And then here again there are so much more variables to be taken in account, the infantry around, other support weapons etc...

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About the riflemen, vet3 riflemen with dual BAR is an accomplishment that usually come on the late game. I don't think obers are an issue anymore but pzgren that comes before you can even equip 1 BAR on one of your squad is an offender for the balance.
The ostheer can have 1 gren with LMG (which is superior to vanilla rifle) or 1 pioFLT and a PZgren before you can equip a first BAR. That's a problem imo.

Come on man, stop pretending like you don't know what the strengths and weaknesses of the Sherman are. You literally play only USF.

Sherman strengths -> Best anti-infantry performance by a mile, has smoke, cheap
Sherman weaknesses -> armour isn't good, needs to swap shells so it's micro-intensive and it's quite possible to get caught off-guard.

I had a chance to kill my enemy's Panther but I accidentally swapped to HE shells like a genius, and there's countless times an enemy p4 appeared while my Sherman is on HE and trying to chasedown Axis infantry.

I had a chance to kill my enemy's Panther but I accidentally swapped to HE shells like a genius, and there's countless times an enemy p4 appeared while my Sherman is on HE and trying to chasedown Axis infantry.

My points are being missed, obviously I'm crap at communicating to people in here, but this is my point. Look at the difference in ease. To me it doesn't matter if I have AOE 2.5 or 4.0. 2.5 is enough to do the job! 2.5 doing the job and not having to hit the stupid toggle and not having to wait 5 seconds after hitting the toggle to fire!

This matters when we then talk about infantry, because we say obers and falls should kick ass uncontested because they don't have a vehicle snare. Then you look at the difference in vehicle impact, which axis is the king of. This works much better for axis than it does for allies between same skilled players.

My points are being missed, obviously I'm crap at communicating to people in here, but this is my point. Look at the difference in ease. To me it doesn't matter if I have AOE 2.5 or 4.0. 2.5 is enough to do the job! 2.5 doing the job and not having to hit the stupid toggle and not having to wait 5 seconds after hitting the toggle to fire!

This matters when we then talk about infantry, because we say obers and falls should kick ass uncontested because they don't have a vehicle snare. Then you look at the difference in vehicle impact, which axis is the king of. This works much better for axis than it does for allies between same skilled players.

The word you're looking for is "overkill". You're saying that the larger radius is overkill. I personally don't think it is. While both P4s are great at dealing with infantry, Sherman is better in HE...which invites other problems like mediums and even some light vehicles so it's micro intensive, like most of the faction. Sherman is a great tank to fight infantry with and it doesn't need any changes. Building up a 3 sherman tank squad is also great for their radio net (basically allows you to run and gun around the map with 3 tanks), after vet1. Shermans are well balanced IMHO. Weak tank to fight tanks, great to fight infantry and the massive smoke wall it can produce can really help you out.

Want a good tactic that works in teamgames? Ranger + echelon with 3+2 zooks. Sherman and captain with 2x bar. Run the captain with rifles and run the rangers and echelon + 1 rifle with Sherman HE. Trust me, unless it's a Tiger or some P4 spam, people will run away and if they don't, it's P4 bye bye, Panther almost bye bye. It's expensive but can easily replace AT gun squad later on in the game (or if you get rangers sooner and upgrade them with 3 zooks you need howits or some sort of AI since you won't be going BARs on rifles and you won't need the weak ass AT gun).
Beware, people will flame you for blobbing and say that you are a noob for having 3 squads in vicinity. If you use all 9 CTRL-control groups like me, that S*** works wonders

My points are being missed, obviously I'm crap at communicating to people in here, but this is my point. Look at the difference in ease. To me it doesn't matter if I have AOE 2.5 or 4.0. 2.5 is enough to do the job! 2.5 doing the job and not having to hit the stupid toggle and not having to wait 5 seconds after hitting the toggle to fire!

This matters when we then talk about infantry, because we say obers and falls should kick ass uncontested because they don't have a vehicle snare. Then you look at the difference in vehicle impact, which axis is the king of. This works much better for axis than it does for allies between same skilled players.

That's where you're 100% wrong. It certainly matters a ton whether it's AOE 2.5 or 4.0. That's why they made HE Shermans troublesome/riskier to use. In fact I much prefer HE Shermans, since P4s generally only bleed enemy infantry while HE Shermans create a lot of chasedown wipes. If a HE Sherman shell scatters 2.5 to 3.99 distance, it still does damage, while the P4 hits nothing in those situations.

A typical infantry squad can easily be spread out over 5 to 10 distance. The 4.0 AOE is virtually never overkill because 1) Scatter exists and 2) squads are almost always spaced out over a greater distance than the maximum AOE of the P4 gun

The concept of "overkill" that you and Esxile were trying to allude to is intellectual dishonesty, plain and simple. Out of maybe 50 P4 shots, only 1 or 2 will land dead centre in the middle of the entire squad - and that is mathematically impossible with 2.5 AOE if the squad is properly spaced apart. The 4.0 AOE will pay superior dividends at least 95% of the time.

P4 does have slightly better reload and scatter(?), but the vastly superior AOE and non-doctrinal smoke make the Sherman an indisputably superior anti-infantry vehicle.

The Sherman has:
-reload 0.3s slower than P4 (OST.Version)
-6 scatter angle against 7.5 for P4 (OST.Version)
-20 less frontal armor and 10 less rear armor than P4 (OST.Version)
-10 less penetration far but 5 and 15 more at mid and close range (AP shell) than P4 (OST.Version)
-4 AOE (HE shell) against 2.5 for P4 (OST.Version)
-A crew to repair any damage (and critical one) anywhere at any time on the field
-Moving accuracy multiplier of 0.75 against 0.5 for the P4 (OST.Version)
-Non-doc smoke canister

All those great stats while costing a bit less than a regular P4 (OST.Version) and much less than the P4.J of the OKW.

Feel free to check those stats: https://coh2.serealia.ca/#29

P4 does have slightly better reload and scatter(?), but the vastly superior AOE and non-doctrinal smoke make the Sherman an indisputably superior anti-infantry vehicle.

Hilariously, the sherman actually has better scatter overall then either the Ostheer panzer 4 or the OKW panzer 4(stock).

Scatter stats P4/OKW P4/M4A3 (note, lower numbers=better):

Scatter angle-
7.5/6.55/6.0
(this is the maximum angle in degrees a shots trajectory can deviate from a straight line to the center point)

Distance offset-
0.25/0.25/0.3
(as I understand, this offsets the targeted point to what I'm referring to as the center point and has a minimal impact on practical "accuracy")

Distance Max-
6.4/5.54/5.5
(the maximum distance a shell can land in front of or behind the center point assuming flat terrain)


The sherman clearly has an advantage here.

These are the scatter stats as I understand them.


Edit: I know it's not a perfect picture, the scatter angle should be touching the edges of the ellipse and the ellipse should be egg shaped, but i made it in like 2 mins in paint, bear with me. Also, If I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me. Vipper knows this stuff better then I do.

My points are being missed, obviously I'm crap at communicating to people in here, but this is my point. Look at the difference in ease. To me it doesn't matter if I have AOE 2.5 or 4.0. 2.5 is enough to do the job! 2.5 doing the job and not having to hit the stupid toggle and not having to wait 5 seconds after hitting the toggle to fire!

This matters when we then talk about infantry, because we say obers and falls should kick ass uncontested because they don't have a vehicle snare. Then you look at the difference in vehicle impact, which axis is the king of. This works much better for axis than it does for allies between same skilled players.

4 vs 2.5 is huge. this is a far better chance to wipe out squads and teamweapons much more easily. how is interest in 20 armor? this shermans have nondoc smoke and repair. for less pricetag.