im talking about the pit as a unit, same with bofors
sure, you have to do 2 clicks yourself if you want to smoke barrage something, wow
its a place and forget unit otherwise when it comes to actually using it, its just does its thing
you have to protect it. amazing, you also have to protect your heavy tds and everything else that does not have the mobility of a m20. takes a lot of micro
still your opponent is the one who has to spend ressources, time and micro to detroy it
so regarding skill it comes down on where to place it? i think my sanety hasnt dropped enough to take this seriously. 80/100 times they are built in the same spot anyways. you are forced back for 10 seconds, come back, BAM emplacement
UTT and the 2v2 meta - already stale?
6 Jun 2020, 23:45 PM
#61
Posts: 600
7 Jun 2020, 03:22 AM
#62
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
im talking about the pit as a unit, same with bofors
sure, you have to do 2 clicks yourself if you want to smoke barrage something, wow
its a place and forget unit otherwise when it comes to actually using it, its just does its thing
you have to protect it. amazing, you also have to protect your heavy tds and everything else that does not have the mobility of a m20. takes a lot of micro
still your opponent is the one who has to spend ressources, time and micro to detroy it
so regarding skill it comes down on where to place it? i think my sanety hasnt dropped enough to take this seriously. 80/100 times they are built in the same spot anyways. you are forced back for 10 seconds, come back, BAM emplacement
well, you claimed it required 'no skill at any level', not 'any micro whatsoever at any level', and i agree with the reasoning blvckdream laid out that this is far from true - especially for the mortar pit.
that being said, you can ofc argue about performance and cost efficiency between, say, the static pit and the mobile pack howie, but in terms of micro the latter doesn't really require much more input to be effective.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
7 Jun 2020, 04:41 AM
#63
Posts: 600
how often did you have to select your mortar pit and press u + leftclick to reposition it?
how many times did you have to recrew it after it was decrewed?
"" send it back to base / medic truck to reinforce or heal
"" dodge an arty strike/ bombing run
if you tell me that selecting a mortar pit once or twice a game to brace it, is the same as constantly navigating a unit, we must be playing different games.
the defending argument is stupid because by doing so you use your units like you do in any other possible scenario while the thing itself just keeps doing what its doing
it even puts you in the advantage since you know where your opponent will attack and after having seen it done for a couple of hundred times, how
its like heimerdinger turrets in league of legends or the dwarf turrets in overwatch. having ai controlled elements in a game which is supposed to be skill oriented is a shitty concept.
how many times did you have to recrew it after it was decrewed?
"" send it back to base / medic truck to reinforce or heal
"" dodge an arty strike/ bombing run
if you tell me that selecting a mortar pit once or twice a game to brace it, is the same as constantly navigating a unit, we must be playing different games.
the defending argument is stupid because by doing so you use your units like you do in any other possible scenario while the thing itself just keeps doing what its doing
it even puts you in the advantage since you know where your opponent will attack and after having seen it done for a couple of hundred times, how
its like heimerdinger turrets in league of legends or the dwarf turrets in overwatch. having ai controlled elements in a game which is supposed to be skill oriented is a shitty concept.
7 Jun 2020, 05:10 AM
#64
Posts: 833
This tournament was just a mess.
Everyone farted rocket arty out their ass like it was Christmas morning.
Every time a infantry showed up, he was instantly bombarded to death.
And you can´t even counter rocket artillery cause the maps dont allow it.
What a joke.
Soviet Katty play in 2s has been a staple for years, because you just surrender half the map to Ost support weapon walls and OKW flak truck without it. Which is basically impossible to break as USF/Brit.
Speaking of which point me to all the stock rocket arty USF and Brits have access to.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
7 Jun 2020, 07:05 AM
#65
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
how often did you have to select your mortar pit and press u + leftclick to reposition it?
how many times did you have to recrew it after it was decrewed?
"" send it back to base / medic truck to reinforce or heal
"" dodge an arty strike/ bombing run
if you tell me that selecting a mortar pit once or twice a game to brace it, is the same as constantly navigating a unit, we must be playing different games.
then how many times do you need to send engies to repair your mortar? or avoid being nuked by any sort of indirect fire while repairing?
to be clear, i'm not saying emplacements on their own need much micro to funtion, but that the micro tax is distibuted elsewhere if you want to keep them alive - which you might want to, at least if we're playing the same game after all.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
7 Jun 2020, 07:18 AM
#66
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
im talking about the pit as a unit, same with bofors
sure, you have to do 2 clicks yourself if you want to smoke barrage something, wow
its a place and forget unit otherwise when it comes to actually using it, its just does its thing
you have to protect it. amazing, you also have to protect your heavy tds and everything else that does not have the mobility of a m20. takes a lot of micro
still your opponent is the one who has to spend ressources, time and micro to detroy it
It's not the same.
You can retreat units like Tank destoyers. You always have the option to fall back in case you overextended with an assault. With emplacements you can't. You always have to make sure you stay on the field, as any full retreat will leave your emplacement isolated and easy pickings.
7 Jun 2020, 07:48 AM
#67
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
The only real counter for mortar pit suggested here is the Mortar HT. If you think the only counter for 400 MP nondoctrinal unit is a doctrinal unit, you are already admitting that Mortar pit is OP.
It's like saying the only counter to a howitzer is OKW flares and a stuka bomb because it's the only ability that kills a howitzer 100% of the time with no counterplay.
A counter to the mortar pit is just more regular mortars. Or a single successfull assault that forces enough brit units off the field for you to snipe the mortar pit. Flame halftrack / flame ISG are super hard counters that make the mortar pit trivial to take out, and it's fine that these units are locked behind a doctrine.
7 Jun 2020, 08:07 AM
#68
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Sorry for spamming the thread, but on a more general note on the stale feel of the tourney, I think the main cause for this is the 'teams must be mixed' rule. This has reduced the possible compositions from 18 to only 3. So it's no wonder every game is the same matchup.
7 Jun 2020, 08:11 AM
#69
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The only real counter for mortar pit suggested here is the Mortar HT. If you think the only counter for 400 MP nondoctrinal unit is a doctrinal unit, you are already admitting that Mortar pit is OP.
You had been proven yesterday during 2nd or 3rd game of the day, where pit didn't even lasted 5 minutes and MHR was uninvolved.
MHT is not mandatory, it just makes it trivial.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Jun 2020, 08:51 AM
#70
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
Sorry for spamming the thread, but on a more general note on the stale feel of the tourney, I think the main cause for this is the 'teams must be mixed' rule. This has reduced the possible compositions from 18 to only 3. So it's no wonder every game is the same matchup.
+1 I think so too. Forcing mixed factions takes away diversity.
7 Jun 2020, 11:46 AM
#71
1 
Posts: 147
I was very pleasantly surprised by how great to watch the semifinals games were yesterday. It seemed that a number of axis players were going in to the game with planned out strategies to deal with the mortar pit and they were able to execute these pretty effectively. I never intended to start a 'mortar pit op' discussion, and it's obvious that it was no longer being allowed to over-perform to the same degree as it had been.
7 Jun 2020, 21:40 PM
#72
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
This is going to be good for the next few days.
7 Jun 2020, 21:50 PM
#73
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This is going to be good for the next few days.
Oh yeah, just watch how every single game prior to finals is now irrelevant and not indicative of anything, literally nothing exists, just the finals, everything was just a mass cocaine trip.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Jun 2020, 21:51 PM
#74
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
This is going to be good for the next few days.
Pretty simple
CN and Seeking OP
Plz nerf
7 Jun 2020, 22:09 PM
#75
Posts: 379 | Subs: 1
Oh yeah, just watch how every single game prior to finals is now irrelevant and not indicative of anything, literally nothing exists, just the finals, everything was just a mass cocaine trip.
Not sure what you're yelling about. I just said this thread will be lively in the next few days.
7 Jun 2020, 22:19 PM
#76
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Not sure what you're yelling about. I just said this thread will be lively in the next few days.
And I added elaborate +1 to it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 Jun 2020, 02:11 AM
#77
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedMy prediction: If the tournament bans 5man grens, Ost's winrate goes down the toilet.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
PLAYERCARD: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198287328305
8 Jun 2020, 02:44 AM
#78
Posts: 1794
Where do we see the results? I need stats to champion nerf/buff. From my ranked 1000 experience, Ost is shit in 2v2, been struggling since 2 years.
Btw is seeking and asiamint the same? Im confused when i watched Tightrope recent cast.
Btw is seeking and asiamint the same? Im confused when i watched Tightrope recent cast.
8 Jun 2020, 09:23 AM
#79
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Not sure what you're yelling about. I just said this thread will be lively in the next few days.
I don't know what you mean just because Allies won every single game in the finals doesn't mean anything. The sample size is too small and as Katitof rightly said Axis were doing just fine before the finals even winning a few games here and there. Nothing to worry about IMO. Balance has never been more realistic and historical. I think the main problem was the Axis players just being too bad and as usual just relying on their OP Panthers to make dives without support army. I see the same in my 4v4 games all the time.
8 Jun 2020, 09:37 AM
#80
Posts: 857 | Subs: 2
I don't know what you mean just because Allies won every single game in the finals doesn't mean anything. The sample size is too small and as Katitof rightly said Axis were doing just fine before the finals even winning a few games here and there. Nothing to worry about IMO. Balance has never been more realistic and historical. I think the main problem was the Axis players just being too bad and as usual just relying on their OP Panthers to make dives without support army. I see the same in my 4v4 games all the time.
I smell sarcasm
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