Hi,
would it be possible to make TDs and AT guns start with attack vehicles as their default stance? I would prefer them to be automatically switched to attack vehicles mode after they are built or recrewed. I wouldn't like them to have any signature over them then (this would be their natural mode). They could get the signature above them if they were in the infantry killing mode (I understand this could be more difficult to code).
In my opinion, such changes would make the game more intuitive, especially for new players. It seems quite a shock to
them to learn that those big guns can't hit a fly but shoot like crazy at every target in their range dealing zero damage.
I understand that the subject might have been discussed before but can’t find any old thread here.
TDs & AT guns - a change to attack vehicles button
1 Apr 2020, 16:31 PM
#1
Posts: 1351
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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1 Apr 2020, 18:06 PM
#2
Posts: 5279
+1
#stalinwept
1 Apr 2020, 19:58 PM
#3
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
+1
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Apr 2020, 21:53 PM
#4
Posts: 3053
IMO it'd almost be more confusing that way, since generalist tanks would have a different natural state than TDs. Seems like unnecessary layers of depth added to the UI that would be even more confusing than learning which guns are effective against what. This would also imply that AT guns and TDs are garbage against structures for no other reason than that's how prioritize vehicles works. Of course, I'm not a new player so I might be biased as someone who already understands the game mechanics, but those are my thoughts on that one.
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1 Apr 2020, 22:07 PM
#5
Posts: 731
+1
2 Apr 2020, 06:39 AM
#6
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
This would just create confusion. Units like the panther, puma, Soviet mini AT gun, and some other are primarily geared to AT, but do have some AI firepower. It would become rather unintuative if the UI gets changed like this.
2 Apr 2020, 07:03 AM
#7
Posts: 1351
IMO it'd almost be more confusing that way, since generalist tanks would have a different natural state than TDs. Seems like unnecessary layers of depth added to the UI that would be even more confusing than learning which guns are effective against what. This would also imply that AT guns and TDs are garbage against structures for no other reason than that's how prioritize vehicles works. Of course, I'm not a new player so I might be biased as someone who already understands the game mechanics, but those are my thoughts on that one.
I agree here. I'm also with coh1 and coh2 from the beginning and I'm also completely used to that. Similarly to infantry small arms shooting at tanks. New people to that game might find it confusing, though, and sort of cheese to pretty extreme lengths. I even thought that AT guns and tank destroyers maybe shouldn't have the stance button at all. They should just attack armour. You could only manually show them to attack other targets and then they would attack them - a structure, for example, or even infantry. Of course, this would need to be adressed in unit description.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
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2 Apr 2020, 07:10 AM
#8
Posts: 1351
This would just create confusion. Units like the panther, puma, Soviet mini AT gun, and some other are primarily geared to AT, but do have some AI firepower. It would become rather unintuative if the UI gets changed like this.
Agree completely here too. But there is a solution here too. With those units I would give them sitchable ammo just like sherman but with different stats. Panther could be more tank oriented (rather powerful AT round capability, but to shoot at infantry it could get some really weak HE round). I'd prefer those units to have an ammo change button rather than stance button. Would again look much better to people not used to the fact that large guns explosions kill much less than you would expect.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
3 Apr 2020, 12:41 PM
#9
Posts: 1096
IMO it'd almost be more confusing that way, since generalist tanks would have a different natural state than TDs. Seems like unnecessary layers of depth added to the UI that would be even more confusing than learning which guns are effective against what. This would also imply that AT guns and TDs are garbage against structures for no other reason than that's how prioritize vehicles works. Of course, I'm not a new player so I might be biased as someone who already understands the game mechanics, but those are my thoughts on that one.
It would create no further confusion than the current system of letting a newly built jackson happily blast away at a Pzgren blob.
If nothing else AT guns should have this added for quality of life.
3 Apr 2020, 13:10 PM
#10
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
It would create no further confusion than the current system of letting a newly built jackson happily blast away at a Pzgren blob.
If nothing else AT guns should have this added for quality of life.
A jackson not hitting infantry has the same learning curve as learning that SMG troops only do dmg up close - i.e. you learn it after 1 game.
A new player can look at his screen and instantly see which units are only on attack vehicle mode without having to identify the units themselves.
If they want to dive a dive an IS2, they don't have to make sure their P4 has the symbol, and the panther that they have been using to kill some shocks doesn't have the symbol for some reason.
Conversely, if they want to A-move across the map as new players tend to do, they just have to make sure no units have the symbol so they don't run headlong into enemy infantry.
3 Apr 2020, 16:05 PM
#11
Posts: 1351
A jackson not hitting infantry has the same learning curve as learning that SMG troops only do dmg up close - i.e. you learn it after 1 game.
Yes, it is true - you can learn it quickly. My idea is, however, to make sure that the game has a more natural 'feel' to it. It is really hard to accept that an infantry squad suffers no losses being hit by a very big projectile - best if at guns just didn't shoot at infantry at all.
A new player can look at his screen and instantly see which units are only on attack vehicle mode without having to identify the units themselves.
True. Yet, I have a feeling that a greater dose of frustration comes when a unit starts shooting at infantry instead of tanks. Given an attack move, an AT gun or vehicle may just stay behind shooting at infantry instead of tanks (frustration stage one). Then the player learns that they have to use anti tank mode (happiness stage). The player is proud that they mastered attack vehicles button. Unfortunately, then they see their precious anti tank gun walk straight into a bar blob and it is gg (frustration elevated to stage two). Resigning from the stance button on at guns completely would probably be a better option as the players would have to go through only one (the second) stage of frustation. They would have to learn to position at guns just like mgs and wait for tanks. If they wanted to attack buildings they would have to click on the building in thei cone of fire. The solution would save them one stage of frustration imo.
If they want to dive a dive an IS2, they don't have to make sure their P4 has the symbol, and the panther that they have been using to kill some shocks doesn't have the symbol for some reason.
That is probably why it might be better to resign from the stance button and the symbol on at guns completely. So, yes, I correct my proposal
It would be better not to have this button on anti tank guns, and tank destroyers, at all.
Conversely, if they want to A-move across the map as new players tend to do, they just have to make sure no units have the symbol so they don't run headlong into enemy infantry.
Yes, true. But it could create and probably will create another kind of frustration I explained above. It might be better if they learn that they should set up at guns like mgs from the start. But, of course, it is maybe just me. But thank You very much for the input into my first thread on the forum
Of course, resigning the stance button I'd leave ATs only in at mode. Players targeting other stuff would need to manually select the target.
(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
3 Apr 2020, 17:17 PM
#12
Posts: 246
By the way i agree with you, PM!
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103769/qol-at-guns-make-prioritize-infantry-switch/
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103769/qol-at-guns-make-prioritize-infantry-switch/
UA
soviets
3 Apr 2020, 18:09 PM
#13
Posts: 1351
By the way i agree with you, PM!
https://www.coh2.org/topic/103769/qol-at-guns-make-prioritize-infantry-switch/
Aha. Wow! It is in gameplay
Though it is slightly different the concept seems the same.(09.10.2019): "You really are a jewel to this forum" - feels proud, thank You
(24.03.2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM
(25.06.2020): http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198035553470/standings
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