So there is a long going discussion about x2 StuGs being better than a Panther at countering anything and IS-2 dominance over axis.
I came up with this idea: Make Panther 200 DMG with slower rate of fire (like Firefly). So :
-> It still takes 4 hits to kill mediums (obviously will take more time but will balance the power of Panther vs allied heavies)
-> Will require 1 less hit for IS-2, giving an alternative counter for IS-2 lifting the requirement of Tigers to counter the IS-2
-> Will require 2 less hits for Churchill, giving a better counter to (rare in 1v1s but common in team games) Churchill spam.
-> Panthers and StuGs will have distinct roles, one being a counter to mediums the other one will be a counter to heavies.
What do you guys think ?
Panthers and Stugs
17 Mar 2020, 00:47 AM
#1
Posts: 556
Grens are finally good.
17 Mar 2020, 00:56 AM
#2
Posts: 960
On paper, it's not a bad idea, imo. It would definitely move the panther more into the "anti-heavy" role it should be in, which is a good step forward in fixing the current TD/Panther meta.
However, I think that if this were implemented, the Panther would need an accuracy increase. Increasing damage but decreasing RoF is good, but it also means that every missed shot is more impactful.
It would likely need to be done at the same time as changes to the other 'meta' TDs, though, since OST currently relies fairly heavily on the Panther (and Tiger) to deal with them; so a nerf to the Panther's ability to fight mediums (which most TDs are) would be a direct buff to those TDs.
However, I think that if this were implemented, the Panther would need an accuracy increase. Increasing damage but decreasing RoF is good, but it also means that every missed shot is more impactful.
It would likely need to be done at the same time as changes to the other 'meta' TDs, though, since OST currently relies fairly heavily on the Panther (and Tiger) to deal with them; so a nerf to the Panther's ability to fight mediums (which most TDs are) would be a direct buff to those TDs.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
17 Mar 2020, 00:59 AM
#3
Posts: 556
It would likely need to be done at the same time as changes to the other 'meta' TDs, though, since OST currently relies fairly heavily on the Panther (and Tiger) to deal with them; so a nerf to the Panther's ability to fight mediums (which most TDs are) would be a direct buff to those TDs.
That can be nullified by giving StuG a 5 range buff and 10 fuel increase so its costlier to spam but a better counter for TDs and mediums. One might concern about OKW but they already have JP4 (which is heretically underrated against mediums and TDs)
Grens are finally good.
17 Mar 2020, 01:18 AM
#4
Posts: 1794
Nope. Panther is so much faster than FF. 200x3 plus a faust or shrek or pak40. Kills medium tanks even faster
Totally invalidate 640 tanks in team games
How about we leave them as it and ost players work harder to devise a good play style? Your faction already has all the best versatile units
Totally invalidate 640 tanks in team games
How about we leave them as it and ost players work harder to devise a good play style? Your faction already has all the best versatile units
17 Mar 2020, 01:20 AM
#5
Posts: 556
Nope. Panther is so much faster than FF. 200x3 plus a faust or shrek or pak40. Kills medium tanks even faster
Totally invalidate 640 tanks in team games
In which ranking and game mode a player can get x3 Panthers ??? Please get out of that topic. I am done with your trollings based on 4v4 arty and shit fests.
Grens are finally good.
17 Mar 2020, 01:24 AM
#6
Posts: 1794
Have you played against cheap panthers in 4v4?
17 Mar 2020, 01:26 AM
#7
Posts: 556
Have you played against cheap panthers in 4v4?
This is my last reply to you. In which world 185 fuel and teching all the way up to BP-3 and building T4 is cheap ??? What level of delusion is yours ? Jesus.
Grens are finally good.
17 Mar 2020, 01:29 AM
#8
Posts: 1794
Sorry by cheap means widely available.
Even in 3v3, everyone just need a panther to deal 600 damage in 1 volley.
This is stupidest idea yet to give a stock mobile heavy armor tank free 200 damage
Even in 3v3, everyone just need a panther to deal 600 damage in 1 volley.
This is stupidest idea yet to give a stock mobile heavy armor tank free 200 damage
17 Mar 2020, 01:33 AM
#9
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
I’m all for making the Panther more of an anti heavy, though it would hopefully also mean less accuracy and bit more anti infantry damage, so it’s clearly a TD meant for heavies that can push back infantry a bit better so it’s more useful with no heavies around.
 | Playercard of T.R. Stormjäger | |||||||||||||||
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17 Mar 2020, 02:49 AM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
This was my first suggestion, before the first rework on the Panther. A 200dmg model aimed towards countering heavy/medium premium tank.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Mar 2020, 02:56 AM
#11
Posts: 556
This was my first suggestion, before the first rework on the Panther. A 200dmg model aimed towards countering heavy/medium premium tank.
Because it is reasonable as hell. Literally solves 90% of the tank issues.
Grens are finally good.
17 Mar 2020, 03:22 AM
#12
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Because it is reasonable as hell. Literally solves 90% of the tank issues.
From when Su76 spam was a thing.
Summarizing:
-If we have heavier tanks (Panther) dealing 200dmg with a slower RoF it would give it a place against both this low HP pool vehicles and premium mediums.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Mar 2020, 03:24 AM
#13
Posts: 1794
Because it is reasonable as hell. Literally solves 90% of the tank issues.
Yes by literally killing allies tank plays from top to bottom. Now what, insta kill t70 in 2v2?
Dude just stop. This axis bias idea is no go unless there are extra restrictions in place. Like pallette swap with a FF.
17 Mar 2020, 03:31 AM
#14
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
I wanted 200 damage awhile back. The main reason I believe it got shotdown was due to how quickly Panthers would tear through T-34/85s, Comets, and 400 hp vehicles.
I don't mind that but something to consider.
I don't mind that but something to consider.
17 Mar 2020, 03:54 AM
#15
Posts: 556
I wanted 200 damage awhile back. The main reason I believe it got shotdown was due to how quickly Panthers would tear through T-34/85s, Comets, and 400 hp vehicles.
I don't mind that but something to consider.
With a slower rate of fire TTK can be adjusted. Also i think it is not a huge issue thinking 400HP vehicles are at most 70 fuel and a 185 fuel vehicle 2 hitting them is normal in my book. (Check firefly vs puma example)
Grens are finally good.
17 Mar 2020, 04:47 AM
#16
Posts: 833
I think you would have a lot of uproar from axis mains when the reload is set back to eight seconds, because that's how slow the FF reload is. This would be a straight up nerf to the panther. （Despite 200 damage FF currently has slower DPS than StuG for example, actually it's the worst core TD DPS in the game).
Now if you add ten range on top you would probably need to nerf survivability if it's going to be 60 range too so mediums have a chance of killing it.
Allies would have no chance of killing the thing otherwise. They have no Ele unit and all their TDs would be outmatched with its health pool and mobility.
Now if you add ten range on top you would probably need to nerf survivability if it's going to be 60 range too so mediums have a chance of killing it.
Allies would have no chance of killing the thing otherwise. They have no Ele unit and all their TDs would be outmatched with its health pool and mobility.
Let's unite the CoH2 community and make sure racism is
17 Mar 2020, 05:53 AM
#17
Posts: 1794
Let it go mates.
The design of panther is its speed, durability, 260 pen range, decent AI and abilities. Right now, panther is as affordable than never.
There is no logical changes it need
The design of panther is its speed, durability, 260 pen range, decent AI and abilities. Right now, panther is as affordable than never.
There is no logical changes it need
17 Mar 2020, 06:46 AM
#18
Posts: 378
Sorry by cheap means widely available.
Even in 3v3, everyone just need a panther to deal 600 damage in 1 volley.
This is stupidest idea yet to give a stock mobile heavy armor tank free 200 damage
Bro, after reading all your comments. You're playing the wrong genre of games, if you want realism, you'd try steel division 2 or men of war 2, although they are much harder games, SD2 at least has 10v10 to satisfy your spam nothing but arty. Its a shame that based on your complaints it seems as if you struggle with the most simple RTS that currently exists, in its most simplified form, the 4v4.
You haven't worked out how to spam jacksons, SU-85's, or churchill + firefly.
I have read people give you genuinely good advice, tell you to try other factions, other units etc. You always have some answer ready to deflect responsibility from yourself.
You're completely unwilling to change yourself to suit the game, you expect the game to change itself to suit you, you're the problem here.
The similarities between your pattern of speech and katitof's is amazingly similar.
17 Mar 2020, 07:29 AM
#19
Posts: 1794
Well have you played allies in 4v4? Let see how easy it is massed panthers panzer 4s vs massed Jackson,su85,FF.
I played tons of 4v4 and massed axis tanks are simply easier to win. Hence im glad their performance is left untouched for now
I played tons of 4v4 and massed axis tanks are simply easier to win. Hence im glad their performance is left untouched for now
17 Mar 2020, 07:43 AM
#20
Posts: 378
Well have you played allies in 4v4? Let see how easy it is massed panthers panzer 4s vs massed Jackson,su85,FF.
I played tons of 4v4 and massed axis tanks are simply easier to win. Hence im glad their performance is left untouched for now
Yes, Yes I have.
If you're losing the armour war to axis.
You're fucking spicy hot garbage.
Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats a wall of jacksons in a 4v4.
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