What is the REAL problem with Ost T4?

UP with a niche use isn't bad. I actually like the unit, but that doesn't mean I get it all the time in any situation.

I'm pretty sure we're not talking about us - top players/streamers get it most of the time, which makes it far from a niche unit.

Is see:

1. Brummbär is UP as what it should be.
a. make it better, maybe a call-in like King-Tiger and locked to 1 on the field and buff it to KV2 level.
b. change it with StuG E as Commander-Unit and buff StuG E, so Ostheer has a arty-tool with some surviveability.

2. Panther has
a. too less range or (better give StuG G a long-range modus)
b. needs too much pop.

3. Panzerwerfer are good, but
a. arrive too late
b. are no answer to many situations when you need pop to dive in with tanks (you can't because of pop) to counter e.g. other arty. Your Panzerwerfers can't support you in such situations, with some more Pen (like Katjusha) or some light stun effect (like StuG E) they would be more useful versus tanks.


What I think would make Ost more fluent and make T4 better:

All over:
1. Remove critical hit of StuG G, give it a lock-down ability to increase range but can only slowly rotate (like CoH1 Mader)

2a. Make StuG E non-doc, move it into T2 with /tech2 requ. or move it into T3. Buff it (faster shell should be enough) and fix it damage proifile, way too much damage versus buildings.

2b. Make Brummbär a community-unit instead of StuG E. Buff it.

c. Give Panzerwerfer a light stun-effect on vehicles too. (locking turret or such small things)

d. Panther 2 less pop.

etc. my firth opinions...

Finally decide what a panther should be: either give it 60 range to make it a tank destroyer or give its cannon anty infantry capabilities so it becomes kind of heavy all rounder.

Or give it switchable AP/HE shells like the Sherman ability? Should be less effective with its HE than the Sherman/Tiger but still be able to do decent work when it faces infantry.

Or give it switchable AP/HE shells like the Sherman ability? Should be less effective with its HE than the Sherman/Tiger but still be able to do decent work when it faces infantry.

One of the good options.

Problem, Panther in hull-down is still good. 60 range would be too much, or the effect needs changes.

I am more for reduce pop to 15, because of it bad AI and changig other stuff.

StuG cound need some upgrades to 60 rage. Brummbär is king of confusing etc.

Brumbär rarely sees action in 1v1 due to current shittierT4 meta. In team games in it's current state Brumbär plays most of the time like a brawler because that seems to be what relic tries to make out of it. But it really isn't fit for this role: The time you get Brumbär out enemy has already enough AT out to effectively render it useless as a brawler. It also lacks the armor and health to effectively do this job. You just have to milk overextending infantry to get to that VET1 and still this isn't enough to outrange the AT guns.

My proposition for brumbär would be to make it more like M8 scott, the differences following and being loyal to faction desing:

-Remove brumbär ability to shoot while on the move
-notably increase the firing range mirroring the m8 scott ranges
-decrease armor, health and mobility

This way Brumbär would actually become what it should be: Powerful long range assault gun that can rain down some hurt on pinned enemies and fortified positions. But without clever management and support Allies can snipe it as easily as axis can snipe m8 scotts.

Brumbär rarely sees action in 1v1 due to current shittierT4 meta. In team games in it's current state Brumbär plays most of the time like a brawler because that seems to be what relic tries to make out of it. But it really isn't fit for this role: The time you get Brumbär out enemy has already enough AT out to effectively render it useless as a brawler. It also lacks the armor and health to effectively do this job. You just have to milk overextending infantry to get to that VET1 and still this isn't enough to outrange the AT guns.

My proposition for brumbär would be to make it more like M8 scott, the differences following and being loyal to faction desing:

-Remove brumbär ability to shoot while on the move
-notably increase the firing range mirroring the m8 scott ranges
-decrease armor, health and mobility

This way Brumbär would actually become what it should be: Powerful long range assault gun that can rain down some hurt on pinned enemies and fortified positions. But without clever management and support Allies can snipe it as easily as axis can snipe m8 scotts.

Another good option imo

...

Problem is, that should be the role of StuG E, not of Brummbär.

Edit: not to destroy the hole unit situation, I think best would be to make Brummbär exclusive instead of StuG E.

Or give it switchable AP/HE shells like the Sherman ability? Should be less effective with its HE than the Sherman/Tiger but still be able to do decent work when it faces infantry.

While that would make panther (finally) viable in 1v1 , 4v4 teamgame panther spam will become more cancerous than it already is. I was thinking making the panther upgraded Mg stronger or put the HE rounds under vet?

Problem is, that should be the role of StuG E, not of Brummbär.

Edit: not to destroy the hole unit situation, I think best would be to make Brummbär exclusive instead of StuG E.

Would the Stug E than be in T3 or 4?

Would the Stug E than be in T3 or 4?

A viable solution would be:
Stug-E at T3
OStwind to T4 with a price reduction so that is cheaper than T-34/76

Brumbar to doctrines redesigned as KV-2

That would provide Ostheer with:
Some T3 indirect fire support which they lack after the mortar nerfs
Make skipping T3 viable with Ostwind
Add a different Super heavy to Ostheer.

Finally decide what a panther should be: either give it 60 range to make it a tank destroyer or give its cannon anty infantry capabilities so it becomes kind of heavy all rounder.

Neither, give it more accuracy so it can actually hit the target and it’s fine.

Ost most balanced faction in coh 2 in my opinion. Real problem is other factions more rewarding and easy to play with. Ostheer try to counter every allied unit with different ostheer unit.

At his current state if we need the buff T4 , Ostheer is combined arms faction. we can give T4 inf to some kind of defensive or offensive buff when inf aprox with any support weapon esp mg42...

In team games ostheer struggles mostly indirect attacks and allied Lmg infantry, maybe we can buff survivability againts those items.

About T4 armor its just long range TD's playground in team games. Its too complicated when there will be any buff or nerf going to happen for any faction late game armors.

But maybe damage increase would be good for panther against mediums.

A viable solution would be:
Stug-E at T3
OStwind to T4 with a price reduction so that is cheaper than T-34/76

Brumbar to doctrines redesigned as KV-2

That would provide Ostheer with:
Some T3 indirect fire support which they lack after the mortar nerfs
Make skipping T3 viable with Ostwind
Add a different Super heavy to Ostheer.

+1

Neither, give it more accuracy so it can actually hit the target and it’s fine.

Another good idea.

Neither, give it more accuracy so it can actually hit the target and it’s fine.

Why not use the hole question to fix more? Line-up problems and bad commander and commander-units? Don't waist the situation.

Why not use the hole question to fix more? Line-up problems and bad commander and commander-units? Don't waist the situation.

Because Vipper's "fix" is abhorrent.

Also because Relic won't allow large changes.