Tiger Ace Explained

damn i wrote like a billion word reply and its gone!
so lets sum it up and make A LOT of friends with my first post ever. if you want to read my "on topic"-thoughts skip 1+2:

1. stop crying about dlc. if there were no dlc you'd complain about the game not being updated with new stuff. it might be imbalanced at some points (assault grens at release?) but as you see itll get fixed eventually (are you implying that everything you ever "produced" was perfect from the beginning? you never had to rewrite parts of an essay? you never needed to fix anything you built at home? if youre christian take a good look at your god.. he had to wipe the earth of almost all humans HE CREATED save noah and his lot. and he is f***ing allmighty and junk)

2. relic is in it for the quick cash. yeah thats why there are ppl at relic who actually listen to some of the bullshit some of you might utter every now an then and change things regarding the wishes of the community (maybe not your wishes per se, but maybe your wishes are stupid?) PLUS: i do not have data on that, but from experience i might say that they actually sell more dlc in the longterm than in those 2-4 weeks of imbalance after release. id say less than 1/3 of the matches i played had any of the new commanders (save the community ones, since theyre free). ppl KNOW that dlc might be changed later on so they wait. youre not the only ones being able to figure that out by now...

and last but not least my 2 cents on the TIGER ACE (thats what i actually came here for):
I consider it quite balanced since its actually the most expensive unit in the game. (its free, haha, google alternative costs). ofc it will be though to fight a 100 popcap german army with ace even if you have 100 pop cap yourself. the keyword here is attrition. youre still able to reinforce, use ammo abilities, plant mines, etc. mines shold be there since there were quite a few tell tale signs that a tiger ace might arrive.
the only problem i see against a tiger ace is not having the time to deal with it, i.e. being low on VPs. But then the Tiger Ace didnt cause you to be low on VPs. Something else did. Maybe rant about the rest of the abilities in the elite troops skill tree? maybe rant about germans in general? OR WAIT. lets all hate coh2 and the ppl who made it. way to go, brothers, way to go!


ps: yes, i am a facist, rich-enough-to-waste-money-on-dlc, biased, fanboy and i oiled my self up to explore the rectal regions of EVERY single person at relic (i wish the money part was true but i rather waste it on dlc than on a pack of smokes tbh)

oh, right! attrition! never thought about that!

Yeah attrition...when the Tiger Ace, with 50 range, knocks out SU-85s in two shots. heh heh.

It can only be beat with correct preperation.


If they reach 7 CPs with a sizable army and you dont have the tools to take it down, its going to trash your base way too fast.

I take it on a less than obvious route to enemy base to try avoid mines, and stick it through a hedge. If it gets engine damage there, who cares.

The only non-doctrinal, cost effective way I can think of is mines, AT nades, and a very major Zis ambush from the flanks. A 'pincer move' from 2 sides. At least 3 or 4 of them since the Tiger ace can 2-3 shot most things. Then supplement this with what SU-85s you have and use them to shoot up its flanks.

If you have a T-34 (s), use them to ram the tiger ace.

Well, another game lost to the Tiger Ace with a 400-40 point advantage for us.

Then a Tiger Ace supported by teammate's Panthers and infantry defending VPs is all they needed to win.
It doesn't matter how many ATs you have, because Tiger Ace kills them with only two shots (destroying it, not decrewing), and in the improbable case its life is lower than 50% it just throw smoke and go back for repair.

BTW, cunning players launch arty to the path which they are going to use to baserape you, in case you set any mine.

Good Job Relic. How many do you pay to your betatesters?

CoH2 = P2W at its finest

If you have a T-34 (s), use them to ram the tiger ace.

How many T34s did you need for that? Because we threw more than 6 T34s to the front, to the back, to the sides... and nothing.
More than 1600 mp and 510 fuel wasted to try a break engine and nothing.

Stupid unit is stupid.

For more broken things, I think that our enemies vetted their LeH arty too. So you've got arty vet3 without firing a single shot.

And the thing that piss me off the most is that Relic hasn't said a word about balancing this shit. Just rumors about increasing abilities to 1 more CPs.

And what is the range of SU85 and ISU152? Must be greater than 50, right?

i forgot yet another sucking-up-to-relic-attempt as a response to all the blame being passed around here:

why blame relic? arent they the devs? isnt sega the publisher? who makes the monetary decisions (who puts the pricetag on things/demands certain dlcs to be available to keep the cash cow from going dry)? doesnt the game industry work that way? am i throughoutly misinformed on this matter? am i too naive believing that ppl who spend that much time creating something, will not only do so for profit, but because they want to creat a game they would like to play themselves?

you may call me what you want, but i dont react to losing a couple of games after some new dlc has been added by declaring the game p2w. ill give it a few weeks and ill see how the next dlc works out. i remember the same amount of premature aggression when the last bunch of dlc commanders arrived. and now? whos still crying about them today?
ppl are so sensitive when they lose... gosh

Even whining is a form of feedback. If nobody whined about assault grenadiers, ostruppen, or FHQ spam, we might still see them in every game today. Relics own internal balancing team clearly was not able to sort these issues by themselves, or the problem would not have arisen in the first place. Calling the whine about those commanders 'premature' is, with the power of hindsight, not correct. However, seeing as you think the tiger ace is perfectly fine, I doubt any of this balance talk is going to make sense to you.

just assume that if you like. by writing your last sentence you basically tried to dispose of my opinion by pointing out how flawed it is from YOUR point of view. a weak move, aero. and the whine is premature since it sure as hell is not the final version of that particular unit (if it is, ill be fine with it. but relic should listen to the majority of players not me). there is a huge difference between stating ones thoughts about the balancing of a new unit and the whine thats going beyond that, but i doubt that talking about this difference is going to make sense to you.

i remember the same amount of premature aggression when the last bunch of dlc commanders arrived. and now? whos still crying about them today?

Because they released a patch nerfing those commanders in 24 hours after release.

We are waiting the same for Soviet Industry and Elite Troops.

I had to fight Tiger Ace twice so far. Both games were 3vs3 on City 17 winter.
In first scenario TA was called in when soviet victory was obvious. Tiger managed to push my team mates off the map, scoring 50 kills in no time and stoping the vp clock. It also one shoted my vet3 SU76 which almost made my cry (it's hard to vet up these guys)
I had to throw on it everything I had. 2 SU-85 ( both were vet 1 and 2), AT gun and ML-20. AT gun went down first, then my opponent made a fatal mistake - he started firing at my infantry. My SU-85 got a nice chance to come from the side and they started pounding TA really really hard. Tiger killed vet 2 su85 and pulled back with very low health. His pioneers rushed to fix him, and that's when I called in a precision strike of my howitzer which finished Tiger with one powerful blow. I've checked the replay just to see if that was a gangbang but nope it was all me only.

In second scenario German player was a lot smarter. He never let Tiger go below 50%. He kept pulling it back and three (!!!!!) pioneer squads were fixing it within seconds. Also, he bought vet 3 for all pioneers which means that they could fix it even faster!
Such tactic caused really nasty drain of our manpower and we lost. I've noticed that using Terror Tactic commander helps a lot because here you get a powerful howitzer, a bombing run and propaganda artillery. Now, those leaflets only cost you 100 ammunition, yes they don't kill the infantry but they make them retreat. I scared those asshole pioneers away and dropped bombs on the Tiger bringing his health to like somewhat 20%. I wish I still had those nice SU-85 to finish him but it was to late - I've lost all my army and we were losing the game.

Nice summary. It exactly pictures the difference between the circumstances in the two cases: when you can and when you can't kill it. Basically you can't kill it if the german players exercises a minimum of carefullness.

Because they released a patch nerfing those commanders in 24 hours after release.

We are waiting the same for Soviet Industry and Elite Troops.

because they (assault grens) totally screwed up every game from the start, being 0 cp call in unit, that didnt require you to play well till you reach 7 cp (elite doctrine)
and soviet industry seems harder to balance then just readjusting the cost of one unit.
i also remember that osttruppen were nerfed to death at first and that the field hq got changed again in this patch

but again: i never said "its perfectly balanced". the word i used was quite. considering that if both players are evenly matched, the russian player will have all his doctrinal units/skills available before the german player reaches 7 cp. and even then i think that the loss of all income justifies the power of the tiger ace

i really feel the need to add this, although it should be obvious: this is my opinion, based on the couple of matches i played since the patch. it shouldnt restrain you from "talking some sense" into me.

because it totally screwed up every game from the start, being 0 cp call in units, that didnt require you to play well till you reach 7 cp

but again: i never said "its perfectly balanced". the word i used was quite. considering that if both players are evenly matched, the russian player will have all his doctrinal units before the german player reaches 7 cp. and even then i think that the loss of all income justifies the power of the tiger ace

i really feel the need to add this, although it should be obvious: this is my opinion, based on the couple of matches i played since the patch. it shouldnt restrain you from "talking some sense" into me.

Sorry say what? Even if a russian player has all his doctrinal units, dont you think the german player does not have this as well? And that is when it all goes tits up when the ACE rolls in, because both teams were on par, and all of a sudden a FREE killing beast rolls in with the support of the rest of its army

The loss of income does not justify a free tiger ace. The tiger ace is a tiger on some serious steroids and it will end the game LONG before the loss of income evens out the benefit of having a free tiger ace out.

If I buy a normal tiger, I will have to save up 700mp and 200fuel, this gives my opponent the chance to push me back with cheaper armor before the tiger roles out. If I buy a tiger ace, I don't need to save up anything, so I can already have tanks of my own and thus my opponent will never be able to push me back, assuming we are both of even skill. With the tiger ace call-in, I can then easily crush him in 1 attack as he will never be able to magically pull 3 SU-85s out of thin air to stop me. My lost income won't mean anything when I can simply overwhelm my opponent with my army (same size as his) + a free super tank.

Beating it through attrition is bullshit, as saving up enough tanks to counter it will take ten minutes, and by that time the ace has already crossed the small 1v1 map and killed all your base stuff. And he WILL make a v-line to your base, as capping territory on the way is meaningless (unless he is under 10vp, which would mean he sucked if he was at 10vp at 7cp).

Sorry say what? Even if a russian player has all his doctrinal units, dont you think the german player does not have this as well? And that is when it all goes tits up when the ACE rolls in, because both teams were on par, and all of a sudden a FREE killing beast rolls in with the support of the rest of its army

yeah. just mark a small part of my comment without regards to the context its written in... i truly regret ever voicing my opinion here already.
did you consider that the german player has quite a gap in his doctrine? what does he get at CP nr. 3/4/5/6? nothing, nada, nix. im not saying the rest of this doctrine is useless, nono, quite the opposite, but youll lack any lategame doctrinal units/skills (other than the TA, obviously), if you choose to pick the elite doctrine. and the TA being free... yeah if you really think the loss of all your income is no cost at all, i'd say you start a buisness right now. youll be a millionaire within days

you are not reading - panthers and p4's are hardly doctrinal units.

Another non-doctrinal way: Get penals to lob a satchel charge (340 damage,1000 penetration) on its flanks, and then retreat them before the tiger kills the squad in two shots...........rinse repeat

With 2,500+ health it would take several goes at it, and a ton of munitions.

The loss of income does not justify a free tiger ace. The tiger ace is a tiger on some serious steroids and it will end the game LONG before the loss of income evens out the benefit of having a free tiger ace out.

If I buy a normal tiger, I will have to save up 700mp and 200fuel, this gives my opponent the chance to push me back with cheaper armor before the tiger roles out. If I buy a tiger ace, I don't need to save up anything, so I can already have tanks of my own and thus my opponent will never be able to push me back, assuming we are both of even skill. With the tiger ace call-in, I can then easily crush him in 1 attack as he will never be able to magically pull 3 SU-85s out of thin air to stop me. My lost income won't mean anything when I can simply overwhelm my opponent with my army (same size as his) + a free super tank.

Beating it through attrition is bullshit, as saving up enough tanks to counter it will take ten minutes, and by that time the ace has already crossed the small 1v1 map and killed all your base stuff. And he WILL make a v-line to your base, as capping territory on the way is meaningless (unless he is under 10vp, which would mean he sucked if he was at 10vp at 7cp).

we can argue on this all night long and we wont agree. i think well have to wait it out. i put my trust in relic to collect data about the outcomes of games and change/ not change the TA accordingly. we both voiced our opinions on that matter. i still doubt the TA is a save way to win a game. maybe it is at your (higher) skill lvl (im always somewhere between rank 700-1000, but after a disasterous night of drunken gaming im 1400+ on both soviets and germans 1v1 and i managed to beat these TAs so far) maybe they need a veto for commanders too. same as for maps. just veto out a handful of them before you enter matchmaking and youll only get enemies without them. but we all know what thatll lead to.... new commanders being unable to be played at all expect against ppl who dont know about the veto....