How I feel about paid commanders.

NOPE

How I feel about Marketers...

But lets try to not let the business department sluts interfere with or reflect badly on the actual Dev team, and their work to improve the game.

how sega feels about paid commanders

How I feel about Marketers...

But lets try to not let the business department sluts interfere with or reflect badly on the actual Dev team, and their work to improve the game.

+1

Hey, the proles are talkin' shit again.

Funny there's a thread on this...

I was bored and thought I'd try totting up the total amount the average punter would pay, in pound sterling (£), for Company of Heroes 2, if they bought;
- All the skins and faceplates (£1.59 x 4) + (£4.77 x 2) + (£1.59 x 37)
- All the commanders (3 x £2.99) + (11 x £1.99)
- All the mini-expansions (2 x £6.99)
- The regular game (not the deluxe) (£29.99)

The total sure is interesting.
= £149.56

That's the cost of the 'full' game (thus far).

The thing is though that you don't have to buy everything. if you are just single players guy you only want the single player stuff. If your into the multiplayer all you have to worry about are the commanders. Skins and faceplates are just extra stuff if you like them and can be completely ignored if you like.

The idea that they are trying to do is add new content to a game over time instead of an expansion, which takes a long time and a lot of money to do. Since none of the stuff is mandatory for you to buy you can just buy what you want, the meta game however can change all the time.

One of the biggest problem that rts's have is that once a game gets older it gets stale because everything is figured out and it is just execution. With commanders this will never happen, could it be done a little better sure, but this has also never been done before in an rts.

The thing is though that you don't have to buy everything. if you are just single players guy you only want the single player stuff. If your into the multiplayer all you have to worry about are the commanders. Skins and faceplates are just extra stuff if you like them and can be completely ignored if you like.

The idea that they are trying to do is add new content to a game over time instead of an expansion, which takes a long time and a lot of money to do. Since none of the stuff is mandatory for you to buy you can just buy what you want, the meta game however can change all the time.

One of the biggest problem that rts's have is that once a game gets older it gets stale because everything is figured out and it is just execution. With commanders this will never happen, could it be done a little better sure, but this has also never been done before in an rts.

I have no problem with all the other DLC but multiplayer commanders is what kills it for me. If all the commanders would be include in the CE, I would upgrade for the CE.

I even purchased a skin and will probably buy some more but I don't agree for multilayer commanders. I really wonder if it's worth it for them I mean how much money did they really make with this vs. the frustration it brought to players.

One of the biggest problem that rts's have is that once a game gets older it gets stale because everything is figured out and it is just execution. With commanders this will never happen, could it be done a little better sure, but this has also never been done before in an rts.

How do you explain that coh1 still makes fun after 7 years, even if it is the same over and over again? Some people even would dare to say that it makes more fun than coh2...

One of the biggest problem that rts's have is that once a game gets older it gets stale because everything is figured out and it is just execution. With commanders this will never happen, could it be done a little better sure, but this has also never been done before in an rts.

Although true in the case of many RTS games, it doesn't have to be the case. Take chess, for example. Or vCoH, for that matter. Games can continue to remain fresh and interesting as long as they have sufficient depth (by which I mean, a great number of strategic choices where no single unit/build order/tactic is objectively superior to any other in a vacuum). It is a sign that a game lacks depth when additional units are required to keep it fresh- that game is substituting depth for sheer mass.

Although true in the case of many RTS games, it doesn't have to be the case. Take chess, for example. Or vCoH, for that matter. Games can continue to remain fresh and interesting as long as they have sufficient depth (by which I mean, a great number of strategic choices where no single unit/build order/tactic is objectively superior to any other in a vacuum). It is a sign that a game lacks depth when additional units are required to keep it fresh- that game is substituting depth for sheer mass.

Verry true, and I think the number of players vCOH still atracts, in spite of its broken state, really is a testament to this. COH2 seems to have been designed with a completely different mindset and philosophy, and thats why I really dont see it ever being as good as vCOH.

The total sure is interesting.
= £149.56

That's the cost of the 'full' game (thus far).

That's just plain terrifying.




I don't understand a lot of choices the marketing/sales team took regarding CoH2.
Really, I don't get it. (...unless they are desperate for immediate revenue)

Why on earth would you even risk getting your product labeled 'Pay2Win' - thus alienating not only the active community but also potential future costumers?


Just about every game now has some sort of DLC regarding multiplayer. More often than not it's just skins or novelty gear.
Even the successful F2P games offer some sort of in game currency (earned by playing the actual game AKA grinding) to acquire content that directly influences multiplayer game play.

Paying real money is 'just' a substantial shortcut and I'd bet most buyers of the current DLC commanders would've probably purchased them anyway.


Nobody likes grinding ... but hiding multiplayer content of a (supposedly competitive) AAA title behind a pay wall is way worse.

I don't understand a lot of choices the marketing/sales team took regarding CoH2.

I c wut u dud thar! +1

I don't think I can find anyone who's happy about paying for these commanders.

And yet they still do it.

Although true in the case of many RTS games, it doesn't have to be the case. Take chess, for example. Or vCoH, for that matter. Games can continue to remain fresh and interesting as long as they have sufficient depth (by which I mean, a great number of strategic choices where no single unit/build order/tactic is objectively superior to any other in a vacuum). It is a sign that a game lacks depth when additional units are required to keep it fresh- that game is substituting depth for sheer mass.

Chess is pretty stale it is all book now, no one is reinventing the wheel in chess. and while I never played vCoh from what I understand of it, currently the strats where pretty much figured out.

When I say stale I don't mean it isn't interesting or fun I mean that strategic thought is reduced to execution. Sure the game will evolve long term left to just the way it is as certain strats become more popular, counter strats will emerge and that will happen weather relic adds any dlc or not assuming something isn't completely broken in the game.

While I don't think relic has completely done it right and needs to be a bit more transparent in some ways about how much commander dlc they are going to release and ways to purchase it in a more easier way like a commander pass.

It allows them to keep a faction with a basic core but add function on top of that in a way that changes the way faction works but by also locking you out of other possible choices. In this way each commander and unit commanders give can be independently balanced outside of the basic core. at the same time with new commanders being released as long as they are balanced properly, something the last two German commanders where not with the last dlc, it doesn't make the game pay to win but simply gives you more options.

The amount of strategic depth this game is going to have in a year is going to be crazy deep if they do it right, as a person who likes to not simply play the same old stuff over and over again I like this. now if they do it wrong we have what happened last patch. I hope that doesn't happen again.

Con!,

If you played COH you would know that before the game was "stale", as you understand it, it was almost unplayable because Relic refused for the longest time to do anything about Kangaroos being into your base by 7 minutes and then crushing your troops over and over again. Before that, trenches and gliders crushed all your people. The PE infantry spam and ACs were ridiculous. ToV represents this shift where relic nose dived from legendary to comically insane.

VCoH and CoH+TOV were done by separate teams if I remember correctly. The TOV expansion caused ridiculous problems to the game essentially ruining a perfect rts and running off over 3/4s of the initial community.

Guess who is in charge of this game? The track record simply isn't there. Nothing that they have said or done in this game thus far has been anything to the contrary of a big fucking letdown and this is about to make it even worse.

Mark my words.

My response to people complaining that their payed commander isn't OP enough to beat me.

BUY NEW DLC COMMANDERS!
OBEY!
BUY NEW DLC COMMANDERS!

OBEY!
BUY NEW DLC COMMANDERS!

YOU NEED THE DLC COMMANDERS!

Con!,

If you played COH you would know that before the game was "stale", as you understand it, it was almost unplayable because Relic refused for the longest time to do anything about Kangaroos being into your base by 7 minutes and then crushing your troops over and over again. Before that, trenches and gliders crushed all your people. The PE infantry spam and ACs were ridiculous. ToV represents this shift where relic nose dived from legendary to comically insane.

Memories can be short, Dave,judging from this post of yours. I have underlined your rightful(IMO) criticism about Roos for this purpose: vCoH was dying. It had little support from Relic,bcs people paid once for the game,and then :full stop. No dlc to maintain income. And yet, people like you, it seems, expected a fully supported game in vCoH for a one-off payment only. That was more than absurd,and so it proved. After the Roo debacle, vCoH was eventually patched (very late) in or about May 2011(?) under the volunteer efforts of primarily, Kolaris and Mora Failes, but that was as much by luck as by judgment. The 2.602 patch only materialised bcs of the abandonment of COHO, and the requirement to keep the vCoH community intact,if possible, until a new game could be released.

The plain fact is that reliance upon a single payment for a game and then expecting it to last (fully maintained), like Buzz Lightyear to infinity and beyond, is unrealistic.

..................

Guess who is in charge of this game? The track record simply isn't there. Nothing that they have said or done in this game thus far has been anything to the contrary of a big fucking letdown and this is about to make it even worse.

Mark my words.

Mark my words:the original team are apparently responsible for transferring your fave of all time onto Steam...it is not yet done,as you very well know.

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Now for some comparisons in RL: if I go to a provincial restaurant in my country, dinner for 2 will cost me far in excess of the Stalingrad TOW and add-ons; so will 3 pints of beer in London; or the cost of 2 to see a film at the cinema.

Stalingrad and its add-ons will (for me) be slightly more than the cost of 20 cigarettes.

Do you see the point?




Get real, FFS

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Now for some comparisons in RL: if I go to a provincial restaurant in my country, dinner for 2 will cost me far in excess of the Stalingrad TOW and add-ons; so will 3 pints of beer in London; or the cost of 2 to see a film at the cinema.

Stalingrad and its add-ons will (for me) be slightly more than the cost of 20 cigarettes.

Do you see the point?

Get real, FFS



Agreed, well said!