This is suppose to be a strategie game?

maybe I could of done something different, but still no skilled required to do what my enemy did.

(I'm not saying that my enemy had no skills)

Well i don't see how you can question this being a strategy game when you didn't exactly play very strategically either.

I mean already by the 6-7 mark you ought to have known your opponent had gone elite troops when that Vet 3 MG42 appeared. Already there preperations ought to have begone. Mining the most vital roads... Your opponent put down more mines than you did. And he mined all the vital inroads.

With Your T34s you didn't really prioritize well, in one case you lost one pretty easily to just parking infront of a PaK40. Others got disabled because you just drove straight past Grenadiers allowing them a free chance of damaging your engines. And considering how well your opponent was dug in. The lack of a mortar also stands out quite a bit.

All your opponent did was a Coup de Grâce. Since you pretty much at that point had little to nothing that could actually stop it or slow it down even. I mean it drove straight into your base with barely any opposition.

So if i were you i'd take this as grounds for some serious contemplation upon that title of strategist rather than trying to blame it on the Tiger Ace.

Well i don't see how you can question this being a strategy game when you didn't exactly play very strategically either.

I mean already by the 6-7 mark you ought to have known your opponent had gone elite troops when that Vet 3 MG42 appeared. Already there preperations ought to have begone. Mining the most vital roads... Your opponent put down more mines than you did. And he mined all the vital inroads.

With Your T34s you didn't really prioritize well, in one case you lost one pretty easily to just parking infront of a PaK40. Others got disabled because you just drove straight past Grenadiers allowing them a free chance of damaging your engines. And considering how well your opponent was dug in. The lack of a mortar also stands out quite a bit.

All your opponent did was a Coup de Grâce. Since you pretty much at that point had little to nothing that could actually stop it or slow it down even. I mean it drove straight into your base with barely any opposition.

So if i were you i'd take this as grounds for some serious contemplation upon that title of strategist rather than trying to blame it on the Tiger Ace.

I don't agree with this one bit.

After winning during the whole game, only ONE unit was able to stop me, the Tiger Ace.

And this is why it's in a way PAY TO WIN. I have had no experience vs. this doctrine before, so how am I suppose to practice vs. it ? So the one who purchases this commander already has the advantage from knowing something I can't even know or practice.

Yes I could of put some mines, but I didn't think that ONE unit could simply come into my base and kill it.

Why do I need mortars when I can flank his position with all the units I had, including 2 shocktroops with smoke to dodge the MG.

If it was a normal Tiger, I would of taken it out easy.

So what, after winning the whole game I should fear and prepare for again, ONE single unit that can simply go in my base and destroy it without any opposition ? that's ridiculous.

Was I smart for not putting those mines ? no, I should of had.

Should it cost me the game ? no.

So your mind absolutely rang no bells whatsoever when you suddenly saw a vet 3 MG42 appear out of nowhere ? As a strategist you'd not even remotely researched the new doctrines now out for 2 weeks or so ?

And again, you were hardly winning the game. You kept losing units. In rather silly manners too. Your T34s were too easily disabled or completely knocked out. And if your 2 shock trooper units were enough. How come you never actually beat him before the Tiger ace arrived ?

If you were winning. How could he drive a Tiger Ace straight into the heart of your base ?

What he did was merely deliver the killing blow. it didn't matter if he was playing another doctrine or had sent in regular tiger tanks. You would have lost.

So your mind absolutely rang no bells whatsoever when you suddenly saw a vet 3 MG42 appear out of nowhere ? As a strategist you'd not even remotely researched the new doctrines now out for 2 weeks or so ?.

I have not played a lot of games since the release of Turning Point because of school, being a Strategist is not my job, it's something I applied for to eventually write a guide to help introduce new players to 1v1 because I wanted to help.

Plus I really don't agree that because I do not pay for a feature, that I need to do research in order to be able to win. If you agree with this, then you agree that it is Pay to Win. I've never agreed with the commander model and never will and will never purchase any of them.

And again, you were hardly winning the game. You kept losing units. In rather silly manners too. Your T34s were too easily disabled or completely knocked out. And if your 2 shock trooper units were enough. How come you never actually beat him before the Tiger ace arrived ?

If you were winning. How could he drive a Tiger Ace straight into the heart of your base ?

What he did was merely deliver the killing blow. it didn't matter if he was playing another doctrine or had sent in regular tiger tanks. You would have lost.

I agree with you, I did lose some units in bad ways.

Where I don't agree with you is who was winning this game.
Like I said, I did lose some units but so did he... but he also lost total map control during most of the game.

If you look at the resources and VPs throughout the whole game, I was in total control.

I don't mind losing a game, but I lost this game because of ONE mistake, letting that ONE single unit drive into my base. If it was another tank, it would of died, it was almost dead anyways.

BTW, even with mines, AtGuns and AT Grenades that unit could of entered my base. Mines can be destroyed by infantries, AT grenades might not penetrate and it can easily just pass by at-guns.

The reason of my title is because this unit is too forgiving, way too much power for too little risk.

To be any good with or against a strategy ones needs to both play with it and against it.
One finds weaknesses by playing with it, and strengths by playing against it.

This is true of all strategic games, be it chess or CoH.

One has to ask, if the black player in chess introduced a piece, that he payed for, that white has never played with or against would you say that was a fair game?

This is coming from someone who loves the series, has bought every game, watches all your casts, etc. I have no reason to say it other than it being the case - if anything I wish I could say that it wasn't "pay to win" as I see it as a really negative thing.

I think it is necessary to make the clear distinction that I am not saying that paying guarantees a win - I am saying that on balance those who do pay have a higher chance of being at an unfair advantage - even in the simple sense of the scope and range of strategic options available.

In this case the "Tiger Ace" was driven straight into the opponents base, no micro or control, just parked there. It took a lot of hits from ZiS guns - with at least 10-12 in the rear. In that time it took out all the base buildings.

The VPs were well against the Germans and they were triple capped, they only had 2 capping units on the field.

I would say that without the "Tiger Ace" the Germans would have lost - even if you dispute that, which is fair enough, it is still an undeniably powerful unit - that you can only get by paying.

Sure it isn't unbeatable, but that really isn't the point.

Expecting a player to know what is coming, from a tiny portrait or the sudden appearance of a veteran unit is pretty silly. Especially if the player hasn't seen the portrait in question or doesn't have a commander with that skill anywhere.

Surly it can only discourage the novice or casual player if research outside of the game is required to begin to level the playing field. Even research only allows one to know what a commander does on paper, not how it actually works in play.

Any way you look at it, it just isn't cricket. It is a real shame because the series is great, the game is great. Why Sega - or whoever - would introduce such a detrimental element, for what is presumably a relatively modest revenue stream is puzzling to say the least.

Why not just have skins, face plates, ToW, campaigns etc as DLCs - anything that doesn't actually effect the multiplayer in such a way as to, on average, place some players at an advantage simply because they have payed more.

Even if you don't agree with me in principal, which is fine, surly you must agree that it damages the franchise for it to be merely open to the accusation that it is "pay to win", surly you must also recognise that really is how some people - some long time fans - do see it.

I don't agree with this one bit.

After winning during the whole game, only ONE unit was able to stop me, the Tiger Ace.

And this is why it's in a way PAY TO WIN. I have had no experience vs. this doctrine before, so how am I suppose to practice vs. it ? So the one who purchases this commander already has the advantage from knowing something I can't even know or practice.

Yes I could of put some mines, but I didn't think that ONE unit could simply come into my base and kill it.

Why do I need mortars when I can flank his position with all the units I had, including 2 shocktroops with smoke to dodge the MG.

If it was a normal Tiger, I would of taken it out easy.

So what, after winning the whole game I should fear and prepare for again, ONE single unit that can simply go in my base and destroy it without any opposition ? that's ridiculous.

Was I smart for not putting those mines ? no, I should of had.

Should it cost me the game ? no.

just ram the damn thing with t-34s and finish it off or cripple it even further with zis-3s and at nades

Imperial Dane laying the wood down. Ouch. After watching the replay it's easy to sit back and say "mines, ram, this and that and this" but in all reality I don't think it would have mattered. It did take over a dozen Zis shots to direct rear, some at point blank range. Yikes.

In a "balanced" world, a supposed hard counter like, say, an ANTI-TANK gun or two for example, would prove a bit more useful considered, technically, it was actually well placed at it's rear and sat there for literally a minute or three shooting the tiger in the rear a dozen times, while another was on it's forward flank.

However, judging the REST of the replay, it's clear you didn't outplay him throughout the game. The Ost player definitely had most of the map for a good while in the mid game, and did wear you down from the beginning, even taking out your first T34 pretty handedly. The later portion where you had the two t34s and you were pushing back a bit was what gave you hope, but as others have mentioned, you really should've seen it coming by that stage, 25 minutes in, in a bloody game where he had put up a pretty good fight the whole game.

At the time the tiger rolled, your double vet t34 was a spitwad from death, both were criticaled and in need of repair, he had 2 paks, and his infantry forces were about equal to yours, vet considered. Right before and during the time he was tigertrolling you, you did set his forces back, but he still had enough mp frozen to call in more grens and reinforce his vetted pgrens.


But back to the tigerace, it is a bit crazy that at guns on it's rear are of no importance, and even if you had disabled it with mines or what have you, it's no guarantee you'd have actually been able to finish it off either.

It was a "I win" button in this replay, no doubt.

In a "balanced" world, a supposed hard counter like, say, an ANTI-TANK gun or two for example, would prove a bit more useful considered, technically, it was actually well placed at it's rear and sat there for literally a minute or three shooting the tiger in the rear a dozen times, while another was on it's forward flank.

However, judging the REST of the replay, it's clear you didn't outplay him throughout the game. The Ost player definitely had most of the map for a good while in the mid game, and did wear you down from the beginning, even taking out your first T34 pretty handedly. The later portion where you had the two t34s and you were pushing back a bit was what gave you hope, but as others have mentioned, you really should've seen it coming by that stage, 25 minutes in, in a bloody game where he had put up a pretty good fight the whole game.

But back to the tigerace, it is a bit crazy that at guns on it's rear are of no importance, and even if you had disabled it with mines or what have you, it's no guarantee you'd have actually been able to finish it off either.

It was a "I win" button in this replay, no doubt.

I really didn't feel like I was outplayed and felt really comfortable in this game, even when the Ace rolled up, maybe it felt different for me because I was playing the game and I was comfortable in every battle I had vs. my opponent even if he won some of them. That being said, I'm not saying that he wasn't capable of beating me but I really didn't agree with the way the game let him do it in this replay.

BUT

What my point was about this game is exactly what you said:

But back to the tigerace, it is a bit crazy that at guns on it's rear are of no importance, and even if you had disabled it with mines or what have you, it's no guarantee you'd have actually been able to finish it off either.

It was a "I win" button in this replay, no doubt.

maybe I could of done something different, but still no skilled required to do what my enemy did.

(I'm not saying that my enemy had no skills)

well when the top level players are doing nothing but spam i think you hsve the answer to your question right there . anyone watching the last snf should be either drying or hysterically laughing

i have been punished again and again for trying to play combined arms never making more than 4 cons or 3 grens ( maybe sometimes 4 )and using different units and even going for ostheer t4 and howies in 1v1 games without having purchased any of the dlc commanders p2w or not . i copuld have had a much better rating but i chose not to . Unlike the vast majority of our top players.

Its obviously strong, but prepare and its ok. Once you know they are using Elite troops, aside from getting critical mines down and hopefully massing a few T34 for ramming, its really worth going out of your way to bleed their manpower. If you weaken their inf force, they will either have to wait to call the Ace, or they will call it and have a huge inf disadvantage, this is where damaging its engines is essential then mopping up his inf.


Check this replay:

http://www.coh2.org/replays/11292/how-to-kill-tiger-ace

Tiger Ace is not a strategy, it's not something the enemy has to gear his game towards suffering some drawbacks.
The enemy can play whatever strategy he wants, he might not even use the other abilities in the Doc.
I am already fighting the strategy he has taken, using the right build to counter it, how am I supposed to counter the "Tiger Ace Strategy" at the same time?
Just because someone got some lucky rams doesn't mean that **** is balanced or logically counterable

The tiger ace is laughably unbalanced and some of the comments here are very amusing. I like the one where Dane says that a normal tiger would have done the same job delivering the killing blow. It appears that Dane has forgotten that a normal tiger is 720mp/200fuel, and would have thus faced 4 T34/76 instead of 2. All other comments basically boil down to: 'kill the german before he gets the tiger ace'.

The tiger ace is laughably unbalanced and some of the comments here are very amusing. I like the one where Dane says that a normal tiger would have done the same job delivering the killing blow. It appears that Dane has forgotten that a normal tiger is 720mp/200fuel, and would have thus faced 4 T34/76 instead of 2. All other comments basically boil down to: 'kill the german before he gets the tiger ace'.

you have to take into accout that the tiger ace call in cuts off all resources income,and if you somehow mange to cripple it,for example by ramming it with multiple t-34s at nading it with cons and placing mines like zero should have done for the entire game,you just have to cripple the damn thing until u get a proper counter and thus win the game by slowly withering your opponents remaining resources away.

you have to take into accout that the tiger ace call in cuts off all resources income,and if you somehow mange to cripple it,for example by ramming it with multiple t-34s at nading it with cons and placing mines like zero should have done for the entire game,you just have to cripple the damn thing until u get a proper counter and thus win the game by slowly withering your opponents remaining resources away.

All nice ideas if there was only a tiger ace to deal with, but there isn't. If both players have 60-70 army supply, and the german player calls in the ace for free, the soviet player will need to somehow pull 3 extra SU85s out of his ass to be able to deal with it. Ramming the thing with a T34 won't even buy you time to get a new T34, so you either have enough to deal with it right then and there or you lose.

Seriously all the replays you see that tell you how to deal with the tiger ace are all the same thing: a defeated german player calls in the ace as a last resort and loses it against a big soviet army.

could've ..
could have..
have..
HAVE FFS