The Hard Talk: Community Contributors

calling Relic a shitty little company on yoink's stream right after they paid your for SNF5 probably didn't help.

Amazing how it always comes back to $$$ for you Ami. Really shows where your priorities are. God forbid people do it for the love of the game...

As much as I have to agree with you there, money is needed when organizing a Tournament you know. I can understand it is difficult for the COH2.ORG Admins to run a Tourney out of thir own pockets

never bite the hands that feed you smh

This idea that I will only do it for the money was created to slander me and is absolute nonsense. The first prize pool that we ever got for SNF was about $500 from Relic and 100% of it went to the players. I think it was SNF3, about 4 years ago. More recently, IpKai and I cast ESL COH2 games for about 3 months entirely for the love of the game. I can without a doubt safely say that I have sacrificed more genuine time and effort for the good of this game and this community than anybody else on this planet (perhaps outside of Relic and the designers).

So calling me greedy or only in it for the money just stings and is way off base.

This idea that I will only do it for the money was created to slander me and is absolute nonsense. The first prize pool that we ever got for SNF was about $500 and 100% of it went to the players. I think it was SNF3, about 4 years ago. More recently, IpKai and I cast ESL COH2 games for about 3 months entirely for the love of the game. I can without a doubt safely say that I have sacrificed more genuine time and effort for the good of this game and this community than anybody else on this planet (perhaps outside of Relic and the designers).

So calling me greedy or only in it for the money just stings and is way off base.

How long have guys like Dane and Romeo been casting the game? Dude your short sightedness is hilarious. You litteraly called Relic a shitty little company on a stream, bragging how they gave you, what was it, 5-10k? And you expect them to FUND you for a new endeavour? Honestly?

Like really?

That's all you have on me? You wanna bring up our dissatisfaction with the state of the game during SNF5? May I remind you that the Tiger Ace was released into automatch in the middle of SNF5, pretty much destroying any idea that COH2 competitive multiplayer was legitimate and not tarnished by pay-to-win commanders. ntd and Yoink saw it coming, and that's why Marco and I were left to carry SNF5 by ourselves, obsing and casting. I might regret "how" I said those things, but I don't at all regret my legitimate criticisms of the game and the business model at that time.

That's all you have on me? You wanna bring up our dissatisfaction with the state of the game during SNF5? May I remind you that the Tiger Ace was released into automatch in the middle of SNF5, pretty much destroying any idea that COH2 competitive multiplayer was legitimate and not tarnished by pay-to-win commanders. ntd and Yoink saw it coming, and that's why Marco and I were left to carry SNF5 by ourselves, obsing and casting. I might regret "how" I said those things, but I don't at all regret my legitimate criticisms of the game and the business model at that time.

If that was all I had on you I'd still be on staff lol. Trying to help you out because I love the people on this website and I know most staffers are working their ass off on a daily basis to make this community better. They deserve to know what's going on for the past year. Come clean (not the shit you pulled on me in that blue thread when I was already out) and maybe I'll respect you for that.

^What Kristof said.

I wrote out a big effort post but the site died.

Basically what it said was:

Everyone rages at Relic at some point in time. When people are passionate about a game like coh2 this is bound to happen. No one can deny that coh2 had a rocky start. It's a small miracle that it was release at all considering the shenanigans with THQ.

Yes, Relic have made mistakes. Yes, the game has had some VERY major problems. COH2/Relic have make some giant leaps in the competitiveness of the game itself (via frequent major patches) as well as their support for community organizations and individuals
.
But to continue to talk down Relic almost entirely because they don't include you in their community projects is laughable.

Ami - you have had perhaps THE MOST support from Relic out of any individual personality in the coh2 community. That goes for funds, social media coverage and everything else. So what do you do? BM them publicly. And now all you do is whinge and complain that Relic aren't doing enough for the community. Just because they aren't including YOU in their new endeavors doesn't make that the case.

If you genuinely cared about coh2 and want to make it a competitive title you wouldn't be asking for "compensation" for "all your time spent". Speaking of, what about all the time your countless staff, mods and website admins spend? where is their compensation? and don't tell me that XXX amount of OCF went to them. That's bullshit and you know it.

^What Kristof said.

I wrote out a big effort post but the site died.

Basically what it said was:

Everyone rages at Relic at some point in time. When people are passionate about a game like coh2 this is bound to happen. No one can deny that coh2 had a rocky start. It's a small miracle that it was release at all considering the shenanigans with THQ.

Yes, Relic have made mistakes. Yes, the game has had some VERY major problems. COH2/Relic have make some giant leaps in the competitiveness of the game itself (via frequent major patches) as well as their support for community organizations and individuals
.
But to continue to talk down Relic almost entirely because they don't include you in their community projects is laughable.

Ami - you have had perhaps THE MOST support from Relic out of any individual personality in the coh2 community. That goes for funds, social media coverage and everything else. So what do you do? BM them publicly. And now all you do is whinge and complain that Relic aren't doing enough for the community. Just because they aren't including YOU in their new endeavors doesn't make that the case.

If you genuinely cared about coh2 and want to make it a competitive title you wouldn't be asking for "compensation" for "all your time spent". Speaking of, what about all the time your countless staff, mods and website admins spend? where is their compensation? and don't tell me that XXX amount of OCF went to them. That's bullshit and you know it.

+100000

I would love to be able to pay my staff. Our SNF6 proposal included compensation for casters. But to be able to do that, COH2.ORG, LLC would have to grow. Without Relic's support, I don't see that happening.

I would love to be able to pay my staff. Our SNF6 proposal included compensation for casters. But to be able to do that, COH2.ORG, LLC would have to grow. Without Relic's support, I don't see that happening.

Yeah because being able to cast ESL games (exclusively?) on SNF's twitch would in no way help .org grow?
.org by itself has a metric arsetonne of ways to grow without Relic's financial support but if you're being narrowminded and focussed on only doing something when there's a paycheck attached to it, you'll find yourself in a situation where that just stops. ESL was the perfect opportunity to attract a lot of new players to your website and figure out ways to grow, creating bigger events and whatever you have planned.

Sadly they didn't offer you money to cast ESL. Tough shit.

The really sad thing about all this is that I sent you pretty much the exact same thing in a PM a long while ago. Pity you never cared to reply.

Yeah because being able to cast ESL games (exclusively?) on SNF's twitch would in no way help .org grow?
.org by itself has a metric arsetonne of ways to grow without Relic's financial support but if you're being narrowminded and focussed on only doing something when there's a paycheck attached to it, you'll find yourself in a situation where that just stops. ESL was the perfect opportunity to attract a lot of new players to your website and figure out ways to grow, creating bigger events and whatever you have planned.

Sadly they didn't offer you money to cast ESL. Tough shit.

I have to agree with this. All that shit aside that happened during the rant time during SNF5 I think you as a personality of great weight within the community and Relic themselves should bury the hatchet and think of working together wthout constantly fuzzing around.

I'm very glad that this community is mature enough to speak openly about topics like this.

I would love to be able to pay my staff. Our SNF6 proposal included compensation for casters. But to be able to do that, COH2.ORG, LLC would have to grow. Without Relic's support, I don't see that happening.

If you want coh2.org to grow you need to put the work in. You need to plant the seed before you harvest the fruit. Simply creating a proposal to Relic isn't going to do that.

You need to remember what game this is. It's coh2, not Dota. There isn't hundreds of thousands of dollars floating around and a multi-million player base.

What about all the other people that keep coh2.org running? not just casters. Social media staff, website guys (like Seb), Social media managers, tournament organisers, Mods like MajorBloodnok etc. If you truly value their contribution they would have seen some benefit from the OCF contributions. OCF wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for all those people.

Ami you, and coh2.org is better positioned than anyone else to work WITH Relic to grow the coh2 competitive scene, but you have squandered it by being short-sighted and relying on direct financial aid from Relic.

Oh I need to put the work in, do I? You have no idea how much work I've put in. And now you want me to do it for ESL while ESL cashes the checks? IpKai and I casted ESL when there was no money involved. Now that Relic/SEGA is paying ESL, I'm not going to just work my ass off so Relic/SEGA/ESL can make money. I'm sorry, but I value my efforts more than a t-shirt and the "right to put ESL's logo on my channel." That kind of offering from Relic is just pathetic, to be frank.

It's like when Dr.Wachs put up $2k to sponsor last year's winter tourney (yes, $1k went to the prizepool and $1k went to coh2.org). We asked Relic if they wanted to come in on it, and after deliberating, they offered us one Ardennes Assault key to the winner of the tournament. A community member and supporter of the scene puts up two thousand dollars, and all Relic can muster is a $40 piece of DLC. This is another email from Relic that flabbergasted me so much that I couldn't even muster a response.

I'm happy to see Stormless, A_E, Magpie, and Generals Gentlemen do ESL. It's great for them and I hope it's a success. They are all staff members here and there is cooperation still happening. I still hope one day to MC some kind of live event, as that has been a dream of mine for many years.

Oh I need to put the work in, do I? You have no idea how much work I've put in. And now you want me to do it for ESL while ESL cashes the checks? IpKai and I casted ESL when there was no money involved. Now that Relic/SEGA is paying ESL, I'm not going to just work my ass off so Relic/SEGA/ESL can make money. I'm sorry, but I value my efforts more than a t-shirt and the "right to put ESL's logo on my channel." That kind of offering from Relic is just pathetic, to be frank.

It's like when Dr.Wachs put up $2k to sponsor last year's winter tourney (yes, $1k went to the prizepool and $1k went to coh2.org). We asked Relic if they wanted to come in on it, and after deliberating, they offered us one Ardennes Assault key to the winner of the tournament. A community member and supporter of the scene puts up two thousand dollars, and all Relic can muster is a $40 piece of DLC. This is another email from Relic that flabbergasted me so much that I couldn't even muster a response.

I'm happy to see Stormless, A_E, and Generals Gentlemen do ESL. It's great for them and I hope it's a success. They are all staff members here and there is cooperation still happening. I still hope one day to MC some kind of live event, as that has been a dream of mine for many years.

If you're relying on a company to give you money then yes, you do need to put work into it. A lot of it. It sucks, that's obvious but honestly dude? You got money to cast video games. This means you gotta put some effort into a project with a return that's bigger than an average wage here. Do you think that it's easy for a company like Relic to pay other people disgusting amounts of money when the return on investment is that low? Do you honestly expect a company that wants to make a profit in the end of the year to just accept your proposal and "hope for the best"? If you wanted to grow the website, reinvest some of the money, give Jackas4life a bloody social media budget, get social media buttons on the website, make the site better for mobile users, make a bloody app, idk what countless people suggested to improve the website.

Why isn't this happening? Because you value your efforts more or because you only start working when there's monetized events coming? Leaving the rest of staff on their own for 3/4 of the time cuz you're burned out or can't be arsed? Short sightedness much ? I'd work my ass off for 3 months if I can rake in 5k without having to answer to anyone or even leave my house to do so.

How do you expect to succeed when you're working with passionate people who want nothing more but this game to succeed and your website to grow when your attitude towards change or improvement is so stubborn? Fucks sake man I thought I stopped caring for .org but reading your arguments just makes me cringe even more.

So what they only offer you Ardennes Assault for Dr.Wachs' tournament (nice job not telling everyone you took half of the prize pool btw), work with what you have. Relic owes you nothing in terms of prizes or financial support. If anything you owe them a big thank you for promoting .org whenever they did.

We got 500 UKF trail keys to promote the British faction. I won't even write what your opinion was on that "prize". Our social media boomed because we were able to give 500 people the chance to preview the British Forces. You reckoned it wasn't a proper prize because it weren't even full UKF codes. Sure, but in the 21st century, you can also grow a website or a game without tangible assets. Promotion you know, it works both ways.

If you're relying on a company to give you money then yes, you do need to put work into it. A lot of it. It sucks, that's obvious but honestly dude? You got money to cast video games. This means you gotta put some effort into a project with a return that's bigger than an average wage here. Do you think that it's easy for a company like Relic to pay other people disgusting amounts of money when the return on investment is that low? Do you honestly expect a company that wants to make a profit in the end of the year to just accept your proposal and "hope for the best"? If you wanted to grow the website, reinvest some of the money, give Jackas4life a bloody social media budget, get social media buttons on the website, make the site better for mobile users, make a bloody app, idk what countless people suggested to improve the website.

Why isn't this happening? Because you value your efforts more or because you only start working when there's monetized events coming? Leaving the rest of staff on their own for 3/4 of the time cuz you're burned out or can't be arsed? Short sightedness much ? I'd work my ass off for 3 months if I can rake in 5k without having to answer to anyone or even leave my house to do so.

How do you expect to succeed when you're working with passionate people who want nothing more but this game to succeed and your website to grow when your attitude towards change or improvement is so stubborn? Fucks sake man I thought I stopped caring for .org but reading your arguments just makes me cringe even more.

So what they only offer you Ardennes Assault for Dr.Wachs' tournament (nice job not telling everyone you took half of the prize pool btw), work with what you have. Relic owes you nothing in terms of prizes or financial support. If anything you owe them a big thank you for promoting .org whenever they did.

+1

If you're relying on a company to give you money then yes, you do need to put work into it. A lot of it. It sucks, that's obvious but honestly dude? You got money to cast video games. This means you gotta put some effort into a project with a return that's bigger than an average wage here. Do you think that it's easy for a company like Relic to pay other people disgusting amounts of money when the return on investment is that low? Do you honestly expect a company that wants to make a profit in the end of the year to just accept your proposal and "hope for the best"? If you wanted to grow the website, reinvest some of the money, give Jackas4life a bloody social media budget, get social media buttons on the website, make the site better for mobile users, make a bloody app, idk what countless people suggested to improve the website.

Why isn't this happening? Because you value your efforts more or because you only start working when there's monetized events coming? Leaving the rest of staff on their own for 3/4 of the time cuz you're burned out or can't be arsed? Short sightedness much ? I'd work my ass off for 3 months if I can rake in 5k without having to answer to anyone or even leave my house to do so.

How do you expect to succeed when you're working with passionate people who want nothing more but this game to succeed and your website to grow when your attitude towards change or improvement is so stubborn? Fucks sake man I thought I stopped caring for .org but reading your arguments just makes me cringe even more.

So what they only offer you Ardennes Assault for Dr.Wachs' tournament (nice job not telling everyone you took half of the prize pool btw), work with what you have. Relic owes you nothing in terms of prizes or financial support. If anything you owe them a big thank you for promoting .org whenever they did.

We got 500 UKF trail keys to promote the British faction. I won't even write what your opinion was on that "prize". Our social media boomed because we were able to give 500 people the chance to preview the British Forces. You reckoned it wasn't a proper prize because it weren't even full UKF codes. Sure, but in the 21st century, you can also grow a website or a game without tangible assets. Promotion you know, it works both ways.

+1

+3? ayee lmao

Fuck oath! Excuse my Australianism; thats our way of saying +1

Edit:
Also, guys, word to the wise, if you want to bicker and fight eachother, I recommend a private forum, away from new visitors.

No one wants to see this shite on the front page