Moscow celebrates Victory Day 2013

I have to add that the celebration for itself is OK!

Victory over Hitler is noticeable and glorious, no doubt. Tho the ignorance by Russia to historical accuracy up until now-days is unacceptable.

And the celebrations to call free-will - hmm. Technically they are - tho that advertising in Latvia sponsored by real money of Russia's embassy, when it happens even over national Remembrance days in some cases - makes it a less to respect.

Our neighborliness were arrested, murdered, then their troops could be found at central prison. Then father's relates..., whole families were arrested and deported to Siberia and also one family in Jugla which touched Latvian flag when Germans moved trough. Russians took and killed everyone who retreated till the last member on the family, also woman and kids..., only their feet were left outside the land.

Everything of that shocked us so much that my father said: "Come sun and we fight against Russians so they do not come back anymore, because that then will bring us death"

Quote translated from Latvian-made historical documentary from people viewpoint. Note - With "Russians" were meant the Soviets within the time of occupation:


EDIT: with english subtitles now

Guys, i don't wanna speak about this. Soviet occupation wasn't good. As I said, I'm from Ukraine. Soviets defeated us in 1920. Many people of our country died like in yours. In 1932-1933 we had genocide of our nation which called "holodomor". There are millions of innocent victims of the bloody soviet rule. I'm not saying that i like soviets. I'm just explain why we celebrating victory day. It's your right not celebrate this day but you must understand why we do.

Guys, i don't wanna speak about this. Soviet occupation wasn't good. As I said, I'm from Ukraine. Soviets defeated us in 1920. Many people of our country died like in yours. In 1932-1933 we had genocide of our nation which called "holodomor". There are millions of innocent victims of the bloody soviet rule. I'm not saying that i like soviets. I'm just explain why we celebrating victory day. It's your right not celebrate this day but you must understand why we do.

Do you not see how colored this event is? Don't you see that even though it is supposed to be about defeating Hitler it is about so much more?

Do you not see how colored this event is?

How it must be? It was victory of red army.

Don't you see that even though it is supposed to be about defeating Hitler it is about so much more?

I don't. What do you mean by much more? Are you about liberation of Europe? Yeah, it's funny in some sense. But who knows what would have happened if Germany had won in war with USSR.

How it must be? It was victory of red army.

I don't. What do you mean by much more? Are you about liberation of Europe? Yeah, it's funny in some sense. But who knows what would have happened if Germany had won in war with USSR.

Edit:
Imagine this:
Some random guy storms into your house and forces you to live in a small room under your stairs without access to the rest of the house.
It this fair? Depends on whom you ask. I'm pretty sure that the guy who just stormed in thinks this is alright (being crazy and all), but you might have a different opinion.

Minutes later, I come in. I throw out the previous guy oppressing you and I let you not only have the room under the stairs, but I also let you use your bathroom.

I hope you see where this is going.

Edit:
If you really think that the USSR was a nice place to live... go watch Das Leben der Anderen (English title: The Lives of the Others)

A lot of my Polish relatives (including my mother) have a completely different view than you.

Edit 2:
What you are saying is basically "since they avoided the worse oppressor, it was totally okay that they were oppressed by another!". Prove me wrong.

Edit 3:
You still haven't told me why it was fine for the USSR to keep like 15 countries, while the US and the British didn't keep France and the other countries where the war happened to be.

Guys, i don't wanna speak about this. Soviet occupation wasn't good. As I said, I'm from Ukraine. Soviets defeated us in 1920. Many people of our country died like in yours. In 1932-1933 we had genocide of our nation which called "holodomor". There are millions of innocent victims of the bloody soviet rule. I'm not saying that i like soviets. I'm just explain why we celebrating victory day. It's your right not celebrate this day but you must understand why we do.

Dude you are so right about this..., I completely understand what's the celebration in hearts of the people themselves and I do fully respect it. Meanwhile you have to understand that quoting Putin with such a "novel" is why people get angry - cuz that quote is full of bullshit.

Saying this - while not only denying occupation and war crime on many ex-soviet union "member" countries as well as even now-days instigating russian people living in those countries against the liberty, language and culture - is like a spit in a face to everyone who had their children..., brother/sister, wife or husband brutally murdered in front of them those many years ago...

Even today Russia deny that there were any deportations, occupation whatsoever or any war crime...

Watch the video up there I posted (includes english subtitles) to know why this is so ironic.

I will repeat myself that this celebration within the people celebrating remembrance for war veterans in Red-amry is honorable and I respect that, tho not that is quoted in this post...

Dude you are so right about this..., I completely understand what's the celebration in hearts of the people themselves and I do fully respect it. Meanwhile you have to understand that quoting Putin with such a "novel" is why people get angry - cuz that quote is full of bullshit.

Saying this - while not only denying occupation and war crime on many ex-soviet union "member" countries as well as even now-days instigating russian people living in those countries against the liberty, language and culture - is like a spit in a face to everyone who had their children..., brother/sister, wife or husband brutally murdered in front of them those many years ago...

Even today Russia deny that there were any deportations, occupation whatsoever or any war crime...

Watch the video up there I posted (includes english subtitles) to know why this is so ironic.

I will repeat myself that this celebration within the people celebrating remembrance for war veterans in Red-amry is honorable and I respect that, tho not that is quoted in this post...

I think they recently barely admitted to having committed the Katyn massacre. Just mentioning.

TZer0. Oh god. Are you reading my posts? We have reached an impasse. It wasn't a good idea of discussing.

Edit:

cuz that quote is full of bullshit.

It's true. I understand this.

TZer0 I think you're being kind of harsh on ksay. You're putting words into his mouth - he never said the USSR was a nice place to live or that it's okay for one oppressor to do anything as long as they kicked out a worse oppressor. He mentions the Holodomor, which is basically the genocide the USSR committed against the Ukrainian people, and he also mentions all the people who were killed when Ukraine was invaded. So of course he doesn't think the USSR was a nice place to live or that what they did was okay.

I am a Russian guy, so for me this day is about the tens of millions lost, most of whom (~15 million) were innocent civilians and POWs either locked up in their homes and burned alive, lined up in front of an automatic weapon then shot and dumped into a ditch, worked to death and burned in concentration camps, etc, all probably by SS troops. So it is a gruesome story about one of the hardest things my homeland and its people had to suffer through.

At the same time it is a very proud day about the people who either left their homes to oppose this gruesome tragedy or worked without sleep back home to supply the army. I don't think that was a unique thing to Russia. People in other nations can tell a similar story, i am sure, but this is my history so you gotta understand my bias.

While i completely understand all points stated before, about liberation of Europe, but screwed up politics will forever remain so. Nations that considered themselves enemies will in time be best friends and then will be enemies again. Politics will forever remain a fucked up business spewing tons of bullshit about this and that. I believe that this is without an exception to any country back then just as well as now. And yes, USSR's politics were screwed up, just as some of the western politics during that period.

But most people on this day here remember the self-sacrifice of the common people who won us that war, probably saved us and some others from near-total annihilation and years of slavery. It might sound dramatic, but that was exactly the Hitler's plan from "Main Kampf" - lebensraum, annihilation, and a fraction of the remaining people serving as slaves for the German Reich.

So yeah, politics will always remain politics and politicians will forever spew bullshit. After all i believe that not a lot of those Russian soldiers really were screaming "for Stalin" when charging forward as well as not a lot of Wehrmacht soldiers did same respective thing about Hitler, i assume. Most were probably terribly cussing, scared to hell and shell-shocked. But we are celebrating the common people who gave their lives for this future that i am living in now, irrespective of any public speeches.

TZer0 I think you're being kind of harsh on ksay. You're putting words into his mouth - he never said the USSR was a nice place to live or that it's okay for one oppressor to do anything as long as they kicked out a worse oppressor. He mentions the Holodomor, which is basically the genocide the USSR committed against the Ukrainian people, and he also mentions all the people who were killed when Ukraine was invaded. So of course he doesn't think the USSR was a nice place to live or that what they did was okay.

Fair enough, I'll lay off.

The reason I reacted (admittedly: quite dramatically) was the apparent acceptance of what the USSR did. I think this is all caused by forums not being the optimal way of conveying a message and probably not the place to discuss these kind of issues (and a little bit because I might have overreacted). I think this bit "But who knows what would have happened if Germany had won in war with USSR." made me kind of lose it, but I guess it is what I mentioned: forums not being the place.

ksay, I apologize if I came across as rude or offensive, but the topic in question is still the big skeleton elephant in the room (which was recently pulled out of the closet) which Russia refuses to talk about.

CoH2 should have been present today.

my first thought after seeing this news post was "are you fucking serious"... sorry but modern day military parade in moscow... putin... is the last thing i was expecting to see in this website. and its not becouse i dont like that my country after soviets was left robbed, corupted, drown in alcohol and violence. its not even becouse they were squishing peacefull people with tanks when we tried to fight for our indipendence... im mainly upset is because mostly i play axis and on april 20'th you didnt posted news about how nazzi skinheads in berlin celebrate hitlers birthday, wich is as much related to this game as putin words and parade in moscow

Fair enough, I'll lay off.

The reason I reacted (admittedly: quite dramatically) was the apparent acceptance of what the USSR did. I think this is all caused by forums not being the optimal way of conveying a message and probably not the place to discuss these kind of issues (and a little bit because I might have overreacted). I think this bit "But who knows what would have happened if Germany had won in war with USSR." made me kind of lose it, but I guess it is what I mentioned: forums not being the place.

ksay, I apologize if I came across as rude or offensive, but the topic in question is still the big skeleton elephant in the room (which was recently pulled out of the closet) which Russia refuses to talk about.

It's that time of the month for TZer0, please forgive him everyone!

It's that time of the month for TZer0, please forgive him everyone!

-.-

...

-.-'

Nothing more to say.

Soviet Union more barbaric lol? Germans killing 6 million Jews in the most savage way is not inhumane at all right? I don't think anyone could top Nazi Germany's barbarism during ww2. TZer0 and GeneralCH are just two bitter, confused individuals.

There are multiple more savage ways to kill people. The nazis were efficient and calculated, that's why it was considered evil. A savage murder is more of a passion thing or a thoughtless action, the same with barbarism.

Soviet Union more barbaric lol? Germans killing 6 million Jews in the most savage way is not inhumane at all right? I don't think anyone could top Nazi Germany's barbarism during ww2. TZer0 and GeneralCH are just two bitter, confused individuals.

Those 6 milion suffered a lot before the naziz, and after all that, got killed to the last

7 million starved to death in one year:

If you watch the soviet TV casts made in time of Ww2 you can totally see the propaganda. How they tell those stories - how families and innocent people were killed, tho in a meanwhile soviets did exact same thing in past and a future...

This is the DARKEST time the world has seen. Propaganda is a mightiest weapon to control people minds and make them do anything..., anything...

The scariest part is that Russia even nowdays interpret and make from that paid propaganda to destabilize countries, where before was (again using propaganda) flooded in those countries russian citizens for easier propaganda exploit and supression of culture and national self respect...