Fortified Armor Strategies

awesome strat guide, good stuff, ELEPHANT!

Damn, I really wondered what the hell is this doctrine. You probably should mention it that it's only available for digital collectors edition owners.

awesome strat guide, good stuff, ELEPHANT!

Thanks Whiteflash =].

GJ Hans, well done

Out of all the exclusive commanders this is the only one I was interested in. Pity it isn't available separately.

Feels more like a generic german build order than specifically for this doctrine. Since the ostheer commanders are more for supporting your army instead of forming, I don't see why you didnt make a general one.
Do you hull down tanks near points, or not?
Do you always call in the elephant? even on kholodny or when ru goes t3 which more p4's can handle much better

Why not use the commander with smoke and pak43 which works in a similar way but saves you a lot of fuel for p4's

Awesome guide.

Just one comment: It says the Panzer 4 command tank is the same as a regular Panzer 4 but with a defensive aura but CoH2 Stats has it as having a different weapon and speed stats.

Aside from that an awesome guide. Well written and entertaining with the balance pictures included =)

Doesn't the doctrinal PIV have a stubby gun?

More so I don't think you should encourage people to ever take AT nade hits to "Drain" Russian Munitions. Firstly you'll never do so as they have literally no ammo dumps and secondly you'll feed a crap ton of Vet to conscripts making your life harder. Thirdly a damaged engine tank is literally SU-85 food.

Other than that cracking write up.

good guide well done. i myself prefer doing fortified armor specially because of the smoke + recon and ofcourse elefant

Feels more like a generic german build order than specifically for this doctrine. Since the ostheer commanders are more for supporting your army instead of forming, I don't see why you didnt make a general one.
Do you hull down tanks near points, or not?
Do you always call in the elephant? even on kholodny or when ru goes t3 which more p4's can handle much better

Why not use the commander with smoke and pak43 which works in a similar way but saves you a lot of fuel for p4's

This strategy is specifically for this doctrine as it includes all the abilities apart form hull down which I feel is a bit pointless in the face of the soviets as SU-85's will out-range most axis armor. Therefore when you hull-down a vehicle it basically becomes a sitting duck. Now if you want to use the standard build order for this strategy with other doctrines you most certainly can as this build order works well with many other doctrines.

The elephant is a must on all maps in my opinion. I have tried to use multiple p4's against the SU-85s on that map both summer and winter to no avail. Any decent soviet player will be able to handle p4's with ease once they have their SU-85's out.

If you want to use the Festung Armor support doctrine which was the doctrine you were referring to and the doctrine I was going to originally write about then be my guess. Like I said this guide is specifically for this doctrine and I believe this doctrine is currently the right one to choose at the moment as axis are in real need of a strong mobile counter to SU-85.

Doesn't the doctrinal PIV have a stubby gun?

More so I don't think you should encourage people to ever take AT nade hits to "Drain" Russian Munitions. Firstly you'll never do so as they have literally no ammo dumps and secondly you'll feed a crap ton of Vet to conscripts making your life harder. Thirdly a damaged engine tank is literally SU-85 food.

Other than that cracking write up.

Actually I have found this to be an excellent tactic. You must think of it like this. If a soviet player wastes an AT grenade at an axis vehicle then those munitions will not be used on something else like a mine or help towards an off-map ability. Also you must remember that your vehicles are also gaining vet from taking damage. Now if it were me I would much rather have a double vet panzer 4 command tank than a double vet conscript squad. To counter your last point I said in my guide that you should only do it if you know you can quickly and easily repair your vehicle. Obviously you wouldn't want to do it if SU-85's are lurking around. Remember you can also pop the smoke ability on your tanks to get away anyway.

Great props to Symbiosis, AmiPolizeiFunk, OnkelSam and Ginnungagap for helping getting the guide out.

You know smoke is countered by "Attack Ground" especially if you have engine damage? And the nominal cost of AT nades really, really cannot be considered a munitions drain.

Actually I have found this to be an excellent tactic. You must think of it like this. If a soviet player wastes an AT grenade at an axis vehicle then those munitions will not be used on something else like a mine or help towards an off-map ability.

Except Soviets have so much munitions it doesn't really impact them. The only times I've ever come close to running out of munitions as Sovs is upgrading flamer at the start of the game, getting a early bridge demo on Pripyat, or spamming Sturmovik strafe late game.

Except Soviets have so much munitions it doesn't really impact them. The only times I've ever come close to running out of munitions as Sovs is upgrading flamer at the start of the game, getting a early bridge demo on Pripyat, or spamming Sturmovik strafe late game.

Well then Basilone I'd hate to say it please don't get offended but your not using enough munitions if you aren't running out or specifically saving up for something.

Perhaps Basilone should learn from yourself, but then you'd be just as likely to float munitions as he is because Soviets are just that way. You get far too much munitions than you actually need to be competitive.

Just for arguments sake i went through just one of your streams and found this in less than five minutes.





As per images you can clearly see 300+ and 400+ munitions floating.

Russians don't need to be bled of munitions and by doing so you are giving bad advice to people. It's a great guide but perhaps you shouldn't recommend something that is utterly pointless and is more than likely not going to help you in anyway what so ever.

Perhaps Basilone should learn from yourself, but then you'd be just as likely to float munitions as he is because Soviets are just that way. You get far too much munitions than you actually need to be competitive.


As per images you can clearly see 300+ and 400+ munitions floating.

Russians don't need to be bled of munitions and by doing so you are giving bad advice to people. It's a great guide but perhaps you shouldn't recommend something that is utterly pointless and is more than likely not going to help you in anyway what so ever.

I should have be clearer on my last post, it's never good to engage in discussion when your drunk, please excuse me.

First of all those images randomly taken from a couple of games I had when I was floating munis do not prove your point. This is because I could easily float that much if I was stomping my opponent(s). Everyone floats resources when they are winning by a comfortable margin. It's only when I am playing a very close game where if I had the opportunity to get my opponent to waste even a bit of his munitions, it would surely be worth it as this could be the difference between one of my units dying or not due to a mine for example or an off-map ability and therefore the difference between winning or losing a game. Therefore it is a valid tactic. Remember each AT grenade costs 25 munitions (which is 5 short of a mine) and if your opponent keeps wasting AT grenades on trying to kill your armor it will keep adding up. Take for instance in vcoh where some players got their axis tanks purposely 'stickied' bombed to get the US player to waste munitions. It's the same principal. If you watch 1v1s in the early game between two excellent players they will always use up every bit of munition they have available to help them win. But hey if you don't want to use this tactic then fine it's your loss. After all this is a guide.

-60mun tellers
-120mun shreks
-30-60mun camo/G43/MG42 lmg)
-60mun bunker upgrades
-25mun rifle grenades
-40mun bundle nades
-fausts (25mun?)
-70mun AC upgrade
-120mun HT upgrade

vs

-15mun molotov
-35mun all purpose mines
-25mun nades (doctrinal inf only)
-60mun DP lmg upgrade (doctrinal)
-25mun AT nades
-20mun ppsh
-5mun oorah (lol)

Unless you unnecessarily spending muni at every opportunity on things like flares, flamers, zis barrage, etc. its very hard to not float as Soviets at least until you unlock off map abilities late in the game.

-60mun tellers
-120mun shreks
-30-60mun camo/G43/MG42 lmg)
-60mun bunker upgrades
-25mun rifle grenades
-40mun bundle nades
-fausts (25mun?)
-70mun AC upgrade
-120mun HT upgrade

vs

-15mun molotov
-35mun all purpose mines
-25mun nades (doctrinal inf only)
-60mun DP lmg upgrade (doctrinal)
-25mun AT nades
-20mun ppsh
-5mun oorah (lol)

Unless you unnecessarily spending muni at every opportunity on things like flares, flamers, zis barrage, etc. its very hard to not float as Soviets at least until you unlock off map abilities late in the game.

Don't forget 0 mun HTD

The ammo costs for the soviet abilities are a big issue imo. Especially the 20 ammo PPSH upgrade and the 25 ammo (laser-guided) AT nades that never miss.