How do you use PG's?

I'd like to have a discussion on how to use these guys.

I just played a game on Stalingrad and i felt it was the biggest mistake of my life. I tried to use 3 PG's at mid range, and to setup flanks, like a shock troop squad that can't assault a position, and three of them were actually less efficient than three grenadier squads without lmgs. ouch.

I want to talk about the best utilization for them, because I think they're a tool worth having. I just don't know what sort of situation to use them in...

Dont use them as shock troops. That is a great way to give your self manpower drain. While they have exceptional short range dps it puts them in the fire of Allies better range brackets (Allies love being close unless they are m1919s). In addition to taking more damage through range brackets you generally put yourself at risk to close the distance through open terrain and take eve more damage.

Those are how not to use them, this is how I suggest use them:

If you are going combined arms there is nothing better than having Pgrens guard your weapon teams. It may seem like a waste, but they shred units who try to get close. That and if they start to get overwelmed you still have the bundle grenade to deal huge damage or screen for more time to re set up.

For conventional use, their biggest advantage is having the largest mid range dps in the game. If you are at mid range and in cover, stay there. You will cost effectively win the engagement unless they are dedicating more resources to the fight than you are.

They have a good multi purpose too depending on what situation you are in or how you like playing. The shreck upgrade while costly and AI downgrading is great at pushing back light vehicles, but keep in mind they HAVE to be supported, otherwise they will get pushed around (Its not like you have two volks squads that can spread out). Pgrends with shrecks also excel in buildings because they always can fire, and get the sight bonus to use their long range rockets.

To be aggressive with them, make sure to either smoke or set up a hidden flank on weapons teams. Pgrens are great at dealing with Soviet T2 assuming you dont faceroll them into machine guns.

To sum it up, getting the best effect out of Pgrens is to be smart and not overly aggressive. This is one of those high skill level units that doesnt really exist in coh2. Extremely effective when used well, draining and underwhelming when used like normal units.

P.S.
Pro tip, dont use them as mine sweepers

upgrade them with G43s!!!

No dont...but Someday nailed it. Keep them at midrange,never charge unless you're not being shot at,and they'll vet up and do nice things.

Ok, yeah.

My goal with them besides flanks and mid range damage engine was as a Stoßtruppen to assault sandbagged scripts. Do enough damage at range to drop a squad member or do and then dislodge them. Wasn't... great... for all the reasons Someday described.

At the risk of hijacking my own thread. What is the best way to assault a position as the Wehrmacht? Just thinking here aloud, I can't come up with a hypothesis as the best way to spearhead an assault. Trying to dislodge your enemy via weight of fire only seems to work with the 250/7 or rolling hot dice with the Grw 34.

Or rather, stock options that come before the StuG III E /6 cp's.

Ok, yeah.

My goal with them besides flanks and mid range damage engine was as a Stoßtruppen to assault sandbagged scripts. Do enough damage at range to drop a squad member or do and then dislodge them. Wasn't... great... for all the reasons Someday described.

At the risk of hijacking my own thread. What is the best way to assault a position as the Wehrmacht? Just thinking here aloud, I can't come up with a hypothesis as the best way to spearhead an assault. Trying to dislodge your enemy via weight of fire only seems to work with the 250/7 or rolling hot dice with the Grw 34.

Or rather, stock options that come before the StuG III E /6 cp's.

Well it depends on the position and the unit composition they have to be honest. Mortar smoke barrage is great at covering an advance while you get into a good cover position. 222's force engagements at max range if you dont think there is a zis gun around.

You'll have to be a little more specific. There are many ways to "assault" a position, and the best one is highly situational

Well it depends on the position and the unit composition they have to be honest. Mortar smoke barrage is great at covering an advance while you get into a good cover position. 222's force engagements at max range if you dont think there is a zis gun around.

You'll have to be a little more specific. There are many ways to "assault" a position, and the best one is highly situational

I've always really liked smoke. I need to go back to using it more often. I got spooked though, for a long time it seemed like a coin flip as to whether a barrage would actually launch or not.

I'll have to start playing some more and get some replays, but It seems the majority of engagements I run into are entrenched conscripts. Building cover is so quick, and naturally very effective, it makes them difficult to dislodge.

PG are epic when you keep them in cover.

If you see Cons behind cover, charging is not best idea since you will probably lose 1 model which mean 1/4 of your DPS.

At the range of 30 they are still better than Grens with LMG! Keep that in mind, so you can use them at almost max range as well.

But whole point is, to get them behind cover, and force your enemy to get to you (high mid-long dps is something forcing enemy to get close) and while your enemy is getting close, your DPS is growing allowing you to melt closing in infantry.

PG are epic when you keep them in cover... force your enemy to get to you

this here is my issue. i almost never get into a defensive situation involving PG's where the allies have to assault me.

it's pretty clear that i shouldn't use them to spearhead an attack, nor should i use... essentially any infantry, so how do i attack as the wehrmacht?

This would surely be a good thread for you to produce the replay?

I usually get two PGs when plaing Ost and use them either as Ambush squad or as AT-Support with my tanks

This would surely be a good thread for you to produce the replay?

hahaha, yeahhhh.. the good ol' show and prove
i'm not playing all that much at the moment. having issues getting my life straight
if i had more evidence, i'd try my best to post.

but, i also feel like, we talk about rifles, scripts, grens et. all, in very broad terms, keep grens at range, close with rifles etc. I'm aiming to suss out what makes panzer grenadiers different. so far the process has also improved my previous tactical knowledge, as result i certainly consider them more of a niche unit, even more than a specialist, at this point.

thus, in my quest to find an attacking and spearhead-y army composition i think i have to look elsewhere than the pzgren.

The problem is that Ost lacks a "spearhead"-unit like the Soviets have with shocks. The only unit for CQC are Ass-Grens and they are only viable as a capping unit after 5 minutes and they take one Gren away that is mor viable even up to the 10 minute mark

this here is my issue. i almost never get into a defensive situation involving PG's where the allies have to assault me.

it's pretty clear that i shouldn't use them to spearhead an attack, nor should i use... essentially any infantry, so how do i attack as the wehrmacht?

Small steps. Don't charge through open, wide area 30m to get behind cover. Move forward from cover to cover. You don't need to get close to inflict damage like Shocks. From wall to wreck, from wreck to hole, not from wall straight to hole.

And keep HT behind to reinforce.

mmm, i especially like the bit with the half track, and by moving cover to cover, going slower, i can utilize my support weapons, and essentially commit more a slow roll tactically in my attacks, instead of trying to break the line. i think that is the strategic differentiation i have to make as playing the wehrmacht.

also, @MajorBloodnok, i'd like to petition the subsection to be named wehrmacht strategy, not ostheer.

..........

also, @MajorBloodnok, i'd like to petition the subsection to be named wehrmacht strategy, not ostheer.

I'm afraid this is above my paygrade

2x Pgrens in 251/or flammer pio with pgrens is nice to shuttle around on flanks

250 battlegroup Is also the best flank assault" force in the game at its time of arrival.

I never do a full on attack head on with ostheer until I have a Tank or assault gun. flank harassment and defense till mah Panzerz STUG E or p4 arrive.

Also keep in mind that you can take down sandbags with at weapons and crush them with tanks

I rarely get more than 1 squad of PGs, they don't feel worth the high reinforce cost and never seem to perform well on anything above conscripts. Mine also have a habit of spontaneously exploding as soon as I dare to glance away from them, but that might be a 'me' problem.

2x Pgrens in 251/or flammer pio with pgrens is nice to shuttle around on flanks

250 battlegroup Is also the best flank assault" force in the game at its time of arrival.

I never do a full on attack head on with ostheer until I have a Tank or assault gun. flank harassment and defense till mah Panzerz STUG E or p4 arrive.

Halftrack serves as a good PG-delivery vehicle but the prevalence of AT grenades can make it turn ugly. It is pretty cool seeing a bunch of dudes disembark into a furious firefight spraying bullets with reckless abandon. And cool stuff is always worth trying.

beep beep

I rarely get more than 1 squad of PGs, they don't feel worth the high reinforce cost and never seem to perform well on anything above conscripts. Mine also have a habit of spontaneously exploding as soon as I dare to glance away from them, but that might be a 'me' problem.



Halftrack serves as a good PG-delivery vehicle but the prevalence of AT grenades can make it turn ugly. It is pretty cool seeing a bunch of dudes disembark into a furious firefight spraying bullets with reckless abandon. And cool stuff is always worth trying.
beep beep

Ughh man, as a predominate brit player in CoH1 you're giving me PTSD flashbacks... I half expected shreked grens and flamers to hop out of that thing, although back then the HT could suppress, so it was a double whammy. It's who dares wins, bravo. Great to see!


With respect Tybo, I just glanced through the game, but it doesn't seem to end well for you!

I presume, it came down to tech and you ended up stalling after T2, that is also something I struggle mightily in at least a third of the games I play. I end up undecided whether I have the time for tech and the pressure on the map to hold my fuel, and whether i'll actually receive any equity from tech, or to go for a tiger/ferdinand. I can never seem to analyze the situation correctly during battle.

I'm afraid this is above my paygrade

Auuuwwww